What makes Pulp Pulp and not SciFi

[Andrew Beasley]

I stumbled across the new 7 TV Pirates of Luna City Kickstarter and it struck me as cute but had me baffled as to what makes SciFi pulp?

Putting aside the look of the figures / ships / terrain I’m struggling to say what the differences is but so far have:

1. Pulp is lower tech weapons except for the bad guys planet destroying ray weapon / mystery device
2. Pulp is smaller in scale – more skirmish than army
3. Pulp space ships a really to get you to the next planet rather than big space battles
4. Pulp is more about deeds and words than shooting it out (except for the bad guys)
5. Pulp comes with a clean, retro, ‘silly’ look rather than a gritty worn look

Yes – the majority of the list makes Star Wars Pulp but I’m OK with that.

The reason for asking – I wonder if some hard SciFi rules (Traveller / Stargrave etc) could be used for pulp without tripping over something…

[Mike]

The science does not even have to pretend to make sense?

[Bowman Stringer]

2001 and The Arrival are science fiction.

Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow, Planet of Vampires and Flash Gordon are pulp. (The latter film is also camp, but that’s over complicating things.
And in between those examples, are many, many transitional forms. It’s a slippery slope from one extreme to another.

If your game (or the movie) plays out like something you’d expect from those cheap pulp novels then it’s pulp. Therefore, I suspect there will always be a large subjective component to what is and what is not pulp.

Personally, this Kickstarter seems pretty far into the Pulp camp (see reason #5 above). But that’s just me and others may disagree.

[Paint it Pink]

Pulp is a genre of story, where men are manly men, unless they’re not, and if not then they are wimps who manly men look down on. Women are fair and need to be saved from the villain, unless they are the action girl.

The plot drives the story. Action takes precedent over character. When things come to a halt, a man burst in with a gun, blaster, sword to keep the story moving forward.

Lester Dent was the man, though Robert E. Howard was also the man.

One is good, more is better
http://panther6actual.blogspot.co.uk/
http://ashleyrpollard.blogspot.co.uk/

[John D Salt]

Andrew Beasley wrote:

Yes – the majority of the list makes Star Wars Pulp but I’m OK with that.

Star Wars is Space Opera.

Mike wrote:

The science does not even have to pretend to make sense?

That would fit nicely with John Campbell’s classic distinction between SF and Sci Fi, and give us:

SF: The science is sufficiently well thought out to be believable with someone who studied science to high school level
Sci Fi: The science is not so convincing.
Pulp: The science isn’t even trying.

All the best,

John.

[Etranger]

John D Salt wrote:

Andrew Beasley wrote:

Yes – the majority of the list makes Star Wars Pulp but I’m OK with that.

Star Wars is Space Opera.

Mike wrote:

The science does not even have to pretend to make sense?

That would fit nicely with John Campbell’s classic distinction between SF and Sci Fi, and give us: SF: The science is sufficiently well thought out to be believable with someone who studied science to high school level Sci Fi: The science is not so convincing. Pulp: The science isn’t even trying. All the best, John.

Star Wars has been called Space Fantasy too. It possesses more than the average amount of Handwavium found in most science fiction.

[Deleted User]

I’m withmike. From what I’ve seen of pulp science doesn’t ahve to be plausible, wich makes me think Star Trek is pulp.

[Jim Webster]

Paint it Pink wrote:

Pulp is a genre of story, where men are manly men, unless they’re not, and if not then they are wimps who manly men look down on. Women are fair and need to be saved from the villain, unless they are the action girl. The plot drives the story. Action takes precedent over character. When things come to a halt, a man burst in with a gun, blaster, sword to keep the story moving forward. Lester Dent was the man, though Robert E. Howard was also the man.

Perhaps Pulp works on Chandler’s Law: “When in doubt, have a man come through the door with a gun in his hand.”

I think that the plot driving the story in a major part of the definition.

I think other comments about ‘the science not even trying’ is also relevant.
I know in the stuff I’ve written, whilst I might not have ‘understood’ the science I have created in passing, I’ve always tried to make it coherent, and if not actually possible (because I’ve tended to assume faster than light travel) it’s an accepted Science fiction science convention.

But thinking about it, the plot driving the story is a bigger deal than the science. But this is just opinion, don’t confuse me with somebody who knows stuff 🙂

 

https://jimssfnovelsandwargamerules.wordpress.com/

[Mike]

As noted above. Pulp can also be fantasy.

Conan being a classic example.

[Jim Webster]

Mike wrote:

As noted above. Pulp can also be fantasy. Conan being a classic example.

 

Indeed pulp can be in the crime genre as well

https://jimssfnovelsandwargamerules.wordpress.com/

[Aethelflaeda was framed]

Pulp Villains  go “The disintegrator ray is now ready to destroy your planet unless you give me the Princess, Bwa-ha-ha-ha!”

 

 

SF villains  it’s:

Dave Bowman: Open the pod bay doors, HAL.

HAL: I’m sorry, Dave. I’m afraid I can’t do that.

Dave Bowman: What’s the problem?

HAL: I think you know what the problem is just as well as I do.

Dave Bowman: What are you talking about, HAL?

HAL: This mission is too important for me to allow you to jeopardize it.

Dave Bowman: I don’t know what you’re talking about, HAL.

HAL: I know that you and Frank were planning to disconnect me, and I’m afraid that’s something I cannot allow to happen.

Mick Hayman
Margate and New Orleans

[Mike]

That is a good point, though possibly not what you meant?

In pulp the villain is very clearly a bad guy.
In sci-fi, take Bladerunner as an example, who is the villain(s) there?

[Andrew Beasley]

Mike wrote:

…In pulp the villain is very clearly a bad guy…

Pulp also seems to only have one villain at a time – OK the others may still be around but it’s always clear who you are fighting against at the time.

Star Wars then is not pulp as at least half the people are the bad guys and in it for themselves.

Jim Webster wrote:

…Indeed pulp can be in the crime genre as well

Aethelflaeda was framed wrote:

Pulp Villains go “The disintegrator ray is now ready to destroy your planet unless you give me the Princess, Bwa-ha-ha-ha!” …

Hmm – I was originally thinking just SciFi for this thread but a valid point for me – maybe ‘pulp’ is an acting style – lots of ‘daring do’ rather than ‘line-em-up and shoot em’. Ties in with Jims ‘the plot driving the story is a bigger deal than the science‘

Another twist is ‘does the hero actually count as much as they think they do’?

Often you see the sidekick saving the hero at one point in the film or finding that vital clue (often overlooked by the ‘star’

In the first Indy film the heroes do not even have to be there for the plot to move on and be ‘solved’ 😮

Final thought for they day – are pulp plots very simple / straightforward rather than intertwined multiple layers? I know that you may have a big bad enemy at the back directing the minions (i.e. this weeks bad guy) but each episode / game is exactly that – tight and self contained with the possibility of a clue to the final boss (that sounds contradictory but hope you can make sense of my waffle there).

[Mike]

That seems fair. Old pulp comics and stories were very formulaic. Pick up, read, move on.

No long plots and no prior knowledge required.

 

[Jim Webster]

I just wish we got paid the same rate as the old Pulp authors.

It’s a sore point, I blogged about it,

Just follow the money!

but the core fact is
“But we can also put things in a historical context. In ‘Astounding Wonder: Imagining Science and Science Fiction in Interwar America,’ written by John Cheng he discusses the old pulp magazines. In the 1920s writers were paid between 2 cents and 5 cents a word with one publisher of ‘Westerns’ paying 10 cents a word. Rates dropped a bit during the Great Depression, but still the comparison doesn’t exactly flatter. Custom Content is paying writers less than they would have earned in the 1920s. They are assuming that writers can cope with a rate of pay that hasn’t changed in a century!  According to one web page, $100 in 1920 has the spending power of $1,200.04 in 2016.”

https://jimssfnovelsandwargamerules.wordpress.com/

[Paint it Pink]

Jim Webster wrote:

Paint it Pink wrote:

Pulp is a genre of story… …Lester Dent was the man, though Robert E. Howard was also the man.

Perhaps Pulp works on Chandler’s Law: “When in doubt, have a man come through the door with a gun in his hand.” I think that the plot driving the story in a major part of the definition… …But thinking about it, the plot driving the story is a bigger deal than the science. But this is just opinion, don’t confuse me with somebody who knows stuff

I think you’re confused because I think that you know as much as I do about writing.

One is good, more is better
http://panther6actual.blogspot.co.uk/
http://ashleyrpollard.blogspot.co.uk/

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