Home Forums WWII WW2 Basic Unit is a Company

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  • #31043
    Alvin Molethrottler
    Participant

    Can anyone recommend, or does anyone know of, a rule set where the basic unit is a company? I’ve been playing some games of 5Core Brigade Commander using Cold War and ultra modern micro-armour recently and now I’d like to reawaken my WWII collection – which has been dormant for far too long. I do not wish to use 5CBC for this as I don’t think it covers the period very well (YMMV and if so sling me a link so I can have a look).  General googling has not been fruitful and Wargames Vault gave me ‘Weltkrieg’ which is apparently based on the ‘Strike Legion’ sci fi rules.

    Is it just me or is there something of a dearth of rules covering unit representation at this level?  One to one and one unit represents a platoon seem to be prevalent and even one unit is a battalion gets you multiple choice of rule sets. I’ve played (and written) games at all these levels and that is why I’m interested in gaming from the perspective I have not yet tried.

    #31045
    Whirlwind
    Participant

    I think that Panzerkorps http://www.panzerkorps.com/ is aimed at this level.

    https://hereticalgaming.blogspot.co.uk/

    #31048
    willz
    Participant

    I use “Rapid Fire” to play company level games.

    #31060
    Gaz045
    Participant

    I second Rapid Fire for company unit games……I really disliked it for 20mm games……switched it to micro/6mm and it ‘fits’ the eye for me….much more satisfying!

    "Even dry tree bark is not bitter to the hungry squirrel"

    #31072
    Sam Mustafa
    Participant

    If you mean that the player generally commands something like a division, then there really isn’t anything professionally done.  Perhaps some amateur sets on “FreeWargames.com” or something like that.

    I’ve personally been interested in this scale/representation for a long time and have taken several stabs at it, myself, but nothing that I’ve felt I could publish commercially.

    #31077
    Alvin Molethrottler
    Participant

    As always, thanks for the replies gentlemen I do appreciate them.

    Panzer Corps (if I’m remembering correctly and forgive me if I’m not) uses the battalion as the basic unit of maneuver and the company as the basic fighting element, Weltkrieg does the same thing. This effectively turns companies into elaborate “strength point” markers, unfortunately this is not the feel I am looking for.

    Rapid Fire? Never tried it, will bare it in mind next time I’m at a show and pick a copy up. As for using the “wrong” scale of figures to get a better “fit” for the eye I am very much on board with this idea. For example, the first thing I thought upon reading ‘Flames of War’ was that it would look an awful lot better using 6mm rather than 15mm models.

    I try to do some research before I ask questions here so I did check out the Free Wargames Rules WW2 section, the only rules I found there that purported to fit the bill “Not Quite Mechanised” turned out to have the basic unit as one to three companies or half a battalion.

    Well, somewhat disappointingly we seem to have found a gap in the market…

    #31106
    willz
    Participant

    I second Rapid Fire for company unit games……I really disliked it for 20mm games……switched it to micro/6mm and it ‘fits’ the eye for me….much more satisfying!

    Gary thank you, I am constantly telling people that you can use any scale of figures for most sets of rules.  As long as your opponent is using the same scale.  Some games play better by going down or indeed up a scale, BZ that man.

    #32137
    Jeff Glasco
    Participant

    I would add Piquet: Blitzkrieg supplement, Piquet Field of Battle World War Two, and I think Great Battles of World War Two are at that scale. I have played Piqeut Field of Battle and commanded a division in a game (see: https://jdglasco.wordpress.com/2010/10/27/october-piquet-fob-ww2-game/). In that game the Germans were the entire 15th Panzer Division with 1 stand = 1 company. The British were an entire Armoured Brigade.

    Jeff

    #32142
    Alvin Molethrottler
    Participant

    Thanks for the suggestions, Jeff.

    I found a set called “RKKA Brigade Commander” by Martin Rapier and, although little more than a set of notes and charts, I have rewritten them and will be playtesting this weekend. The primary change involves de-hexing the rules by substituting a measurement of 6″ for one hex. We’ll be playing an adapted version of “A Soldier’s Work” which is a scenario from the WW2 Spearhead supplement “Where the Iron Crosses Grow”, that pits 25th Panzer Division against 15th Guards Tank Corps.

    My version of the rules is entitled “Vpered! Na Zapad!” which hopefully translates as ‘Forward! To the West!’.

    #32880
    Keith Burnett
    Participant

    We use IABSM from TooFatLardies

    #32899
    Just Jack
    Participant

    Keith,

    You’re using IABSM for 1 stand=1 company games? That activation system for that level of game may be brilliant.

    Do you have notes for unit firepower and movement that you could share?

    V/R,

    Jack

    #33239
    Keith Burnett
    Participant

    Hey Jack

    Sorry, no. I mis read “basic unit”. We use IABSM for a company level game, not basic unit.

    Might be worth a think though!

    Keith

    #33243
    Otto Schmidt
    Participant

    Dear Alvin

     

    If you mean that a company is the size represented in the whole battle, or a company is the smallest unit on thetable top is unclear. If the largest unit then there should be dozens of rule sets. If the lowest then that is a different story. My own game of “The Shattered Century” which is between the wars to about 1943 is an ARMY level game which means that the table top represents something like a map in the book where there are the ___XXXX_____ boundaries on either side. Each stand of 4 infantry represents a battalion or maybe a company. The players in the game represent generals of armies and the table top is NOT a miniature diorama of a battlefield, but in all senses a table top, in a chateau somewhere 25 miles behind the lines where the tanks, stands of infantry and artillery are moved around in the grand ballroom on a large table top by nattily dressed WACS with croupier sticks.  Everyone in the room represents  a General or Field Marshall, while the only colonel in the room takes the coffee order. The only connection you have with the muddy, bloody, gassed over hell you have sent your 200,000 men into is the slight tinkling of the crystal chandelier  as the seven day barrage reaches it’s crescendo.

    I’m not interested in pretending I’m Sergeant’s Rock, Steiner, York, Petrov, or the like and prefer to be one of the higher ranks where, after 6, I punch out and go to enjoy the night club with my  gorgeous “Liason officer” at my usual world dominating table.

    If you like send me your snail mail to [email protected] and I’ll send you a copy. But be warned, this is not a game where we care about the difference between a MakIV A293, B and a Mark IV A294,C. There’s only light tank, medium tank, and heavy tank, and the artillery is the crusher.

     

    The rules are only about 12 pages long, if that, and there is a complete campaign system, though that involves printing a lot of game materials. It’s also set up for Imagi-Nations so there’s copious force pools and orders of battle, but they are for nations like “Fahrvergnugen or the 7 3/4 Rich” and “The Workers Winter Wonderland of Freeland.” (Guess who?”) The former of course is a cross between  Mel Brooks’ Producers  and To be or not to be, and the three Stooges I’ll never Heil again.There’s also “Bandrika” (en “omage” to Alfred Hitchcock’s The Lady Vanishes, Hungland, The 443rd (and counting) Flounce Republic, The Fascist Monarchy of  Fanabla, Terramasu (Samurai Night Fever), Tropicana (a cross between Spain and “Don’t Cry for me Argentina….”, The Newnited States. The Empire of Fu Manchu and chain of Chinese restaruarants, and one of my favorites, the Grand Exalted Imperial Monarchial  Autocratic Republic of Putzland (Long live Marshall Soapsudski!).  The campaign game is based on “areas of conflict” These are twelve in number and players can either use very poorish locals, or send in their own troops. These are “Soueeee!” “Scandalnavia,” “Bancock and the Welay Peninsula.” “The Phillip Morrisco Islands,”  “The Sultanate of Irate, The Bongo Congo, “The Macarina” (The Sultan owns all the oil rights, but more important he owns the rights to all the “On the Road Movies” and he’d really like to get the rights to Dorothy LaMour.

    Watch out, the Marks Brothers will eventually show up as well.

    Each country has its own write up, and it’s own R&D. though some of these are of doubtful utility. For example in Fahrvergnuggen they have produced the Santa Klausbarbie dolls modeled after “Ilsa She wolf of the SS” (Schlitzwitz) and her faithful dog Blitz Fritz, who can with his bare teeth tear the armor off a Sherman tank.  Bandrika has The Trap Family Singers, and also the alien War machines from War of the Worlds (if you try and use them you will get everything you’ve got coming to you! as the breakdown table is phenominal) and of course  the commanders of the Empire of Terramasu can re-roll a die if they come up with an appropriate Haiku like

    There was a young maid from Madrass

    Who had a magnificent ass.

    Not rounded and pink

    as you probably think,

    But was grey, had long ears, and ate grass.

     

    Otto

     

     

    Otto

    #33307
    Alvin Molethrottler
    Participant

    Dear Alvin If you mean that a company is the size represented in the whole battle, or a company is the smallest unit on the table top is unclear.

    Perhaps if you’d read this thread you would have had a better understanding of what is being discussed. However I know that you are an American so please allow me to try and explain, when I refer to the basic unit in the game being a company of troops I mean that each individual base (or stand if you prefer) of figures represents one company in “real life”. Thusly an average battalion would be represented by three bases.

    Rather than assume that you are hard of understanding I will instead assume that there is some kind of disconnect in terminology between English and American wargamers, because in 30 years of gaming I’ve never met anyone that didn’t understand what the term “basic unit” was referring to.

    To further your understanding, when it comes to what the largest command on the table is we generally refer to this as the “level”. So, for example, a “battalion level” game would be a set of rules where a maximum of one battalion of troops would be used.

    And of course you can combine the two, so you could have a “divisional level” game where the “basic unit” is the company, savvy?

    Anyway, hope that helps, TTFN – The Molethrottler 😉 lol

    #33650
    MartinR
    Participant

    There a few a few 1 base = 1 company sets out there, but generally the companies are grouped into battalions etc.

     

    My RKKA Brigade Commander is based on Tim Gows NATO Brigade Commander, and although the elements and combat resolution are at company level, the companies manouvre as part of battalion sized formations. There are some aspect of the combat model I’m unhappy with,  but I didn’t want break Tims system too much.

    NQM, PanzerKorps and Piquet FOB have already been mentioned, another one to look at is Lightning War by Phoenix games (although, again manouvre is by battalion).

    Great Battles of WW2/Dropzone by Bruce McFarlane also use company sized elements but then launches off into a series of multiple Corps sized battles better fought with Megablitz et al!).

    Combat 300 by Ian Drury uses rifles companies as the infantry element, with tank platoons. Aimed at brigade sized actions, it works rather well imho. Published in the WD Journal. It is also aimed at using Kallistra hexes though.

    I often treat Memoir 44 as having company sized elements, if you have a poke around on my blog you’ll find Memoir 45, my mods to make it fractionally more ‘realistic’.

    Cheers

    Martin

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    "Mistakes in the initial deployment cannot be rectified" - Helmuth von Moltke

    #33655
    Alvin Molethrottler
    Participant

    Thanks Martin, our group is currently using my version of your RKKA rules.

    #33659
    Mike
    Keymaster

    Perhaps if you’d read this thread you would have had a better understanding of what is being discussed. However I know that you are an American so please allow me to try and explain,

    Don’t be uncool please.

    #33661
    Alvin Molethrottler
    Participant

    Don’t be uncool please.

    Noted.

    #33687
    Mike
    Keymaster

    ooooh quick someone do a meme piccy!

    #33702
    Mike
    Keymaster

    THIS

    IS

    TWW!!!

    #33768
    MartinR
    Participant

    Thanks Martin, our group is currently using my version of your RKKA rules.

    Great. A couple of the things I never satisfactorily managed to fix were suppression (or lack of) from heavy weapons and artillery and the effects of target target density. I did bolt on a bit of chrome to make dense targets easier to hit and iirc there are some suppression effects from artillery fire, but it always seemed  a bit clumsy.

    Anyway, glad it is being played. I did manage to run the odd division sized game with it, but its sweet spot seemed to be reinforced brigade.

    Cheers

    Martin

     

     

    "Mistakes in the initial deployment cannot be rectified" - Helmuth von Moltke

    #34189
    steders
    Participant

    THIS IS TWW!!!

    I’m sorry, that doesn’t suit the character of this site. I think the pipe smoking baby is more appropriate

    #34190
    Mike
    Keymaster

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