[William Jones]

They look great!  Fortunately they are in little lead Valhalla, and can do better in the future.

Really lovely collection.  I am a tad envious, but this is OK because I have shades.    Definitely like the round bases too.  Good job.  Pondering something alternative history along these lines in the new year.

 

[William Jones]

Done.

Not asked but worth factoring, for US customers online purchasing is often a necessity, as there are precious few local vendors and snail mail is almost extinct for ordering or payment.  Also, postage from overseas has become brutally high, and with great reluctance that has caused me to buy less and less outside of the US.  I now look first for US products or suppliers for things I would always have ordered from the UK or Italy without a thought.

[William Jones]

Just Jack wrote:

All, Somebody help me! I’m about to start a campaign, but need an idea for another. Here’s the situation: I have a small, freedom loving but war-mongering nation that has expeditionary forces ready to deploy to right wrongs, free the oppressed, etc…

Freedom loving and war-mongering…  No, there will be no inherent contradictions or awkward conflicts there at all. 

I think you need to flesh out the ideology of this entity a bit more.  Are they something like Templars, or more like Swiss mercenaries?  Does this country more resemble Jacobin France or the Roman Republic?  Do they have a mystic belief in their utter uniqueness and that they are indispensable for the continued turnings of the solar system and cosmos?  This is something of a role play exercise.  What drives this culture?  What are its imperatives and taboos?  Are the people flexible or rigid overall?

Just Jack wrote:

I need a raison d’etre: is a minority ethnic group being slaughtered and the world is only watching? Is a peace loving nation being invaded? Has an insurgency sprung up? Have narco-traffickers moved in? What is the situation that needs rectifying/neutralizing?

If you get more of a fix on the culture, their pecking order for enemies will emerge with more clarity.  Will they enthusiastically die on someone else’s hill to secure universal suffrage and paid vacations for all of oppressed Vulgaria, or do they need a clear objective benefit to themselves to insure the free flow of rancid grain and poorly made souvenirs through the Hellespont, without interference from Trojan customs agents?

This sounds like a lot of fun, but making a credible doctrinal base for this limited band of interventionists will create more satisfaction all around.

 

[William Jones]

I am with you about needing more time!

Your answers make all the stretch I needed.  Early wars, check, and with an ability to engage massed guerrilla types, check.

I would not want to detract from the focus you have on the rules.   The COIN operations like those you mention make great games, but are more properly skirmish games, and exercises in patience and detail.   Their inclusion in your game would simply slow down the tempo and trivialize the decisiveness in your game, in all likelihood.  Sometimes less really is more, and the focus on a clear tactical decision is what comes across while reading them.

Campaign rules will be very welcome.

Thanks for your answers.  Looking forward to this.

[William Jones]

Those armies look great.  The artillery piece is the best ever.  Perfect period for 28mm.  Would love to do cossacks.

[William Jones]

Rhoderic wrote:

Bloody hell! 15mm Quar! I forgot there’s 15mm Quar. This thread will be my death

 

But you’ll die happy, yes?

[William Jones]

Gaz045 wrote:

A full battery of S-300 SAM launchers and command vehicles to paint, support trucks and liaison vehicles……all 1/72 scale, mostly diecasts……..

Do you use a table or a tennis court?    That will be a stunning project.

[William Jones]

Very nice group.

[William Jones]

Don’t worry about the other skirmishers.  They’ve been detailed off somewhere and are fine!  That is a very attractive unit and you should be rightly proud of it.

Is the odd angled base required in Blucher?  Or is it just useful to you for measurements?

[William Jones]

Good stuff.  Got to poking around and found this: http://www.historynet.com/book-review-zhukovs-greatest-defeat-the-red-armys-epic-disaster-in-operation-mars-1942-by-david-m-glantz-ww2.htm

I wonder how much defeat in Operation Mars informed later planning for the success at Kursk?

[William Jones]

Peter Berry wrote:

I may not have a huge interest in 28mm figures, but speaking as someone who deals in hot metal and little men, I’d say that most historical wargames figures are hugely underpriced. Take into account the costs involved and the volumes sold means that there is generally very little return on investment. Wargamers nowadays want professional levels of investment in product, service, production values and presentation, but want to pay hobby levels in terms of price.

This brushes against territory that always makes me a little anxious.  The margin of profit is so low that the only way we enjoy the variety of offerings that we do is because because the proprietors are often passionate about their product and are gamers themselves.  As a customer, sometimes it is worth paying more simply to keep the company owners in this very small and niche business interested in carrying on.  This is also the main reason I hate pirates so much.

[William Jones]

Outstanding.  6mm is more and more impressive to me the more I look at that scale.

[William Jones]

As Guy said, brilliant result from a scarily blank canvas.  Love the results.  Tons of character.

[William Jones]

Thanks, guys.  At the end of the day though, all that is left is to decide whether to mope about it or cope with it, as a form of fiat moksha.  Getting cut back to this extent does wonders to focus the mind, so that is what I am doing and why I am bouncing ideas off of some of you here.  Meanwhile, I’ve done the salvage, set those things in order, and am pressing on with more enthusiasm than I’ve had in years.

And with that, there is nothing more to say about the past.

[William Jones]

Thanks, guys.

All this input is greatly appreciated and given me some things to ponder.  I’ve been chewing this over for a while.

@ Steve Williams and Steve Johnson – the Baccus BEF does look good in the catalog, as does all the early war stuff.  The late French look great.  What has me dubious are the late war British and Germans.  The helmets look haphazard, although it may be the painting.  The painting and presentation for those codes is just not as reassuring as for the early war stuff, and that causes a bit of hesitation for those two sets – late war British and Germans.  As for Pendraken, they don’t show enough images to persuade.  Although the Middle East WWI line has always appealed.  Kallistra is very generous with the photos, and the sculpts look great.  The scope of the Kallistra line is rather minimalist, however.

@ Norm Smith – I agree with you.  I certainly prefer the mix of poses that Kallistra offers, and they do look more like those grainy black and white photos we’ve all seen.  Definitely a stronger period feel based on the minis alone.

@ kyoteblue – There is definitely a wealth of 15mm out there these days for WWI, probably the widest selection offered in any one scale.   That said, while rebooting my whole wargaming engine, the fact struck me that 15mm is my least favorite scale for most periods.  They are too large for convincing mass on a small table, and too small to best show sculpting and painting skills.   The 12mm are pushing it.

@ irishserb – the line is aesthetically impressive, but not extensive, unfortunately.  The artillery selection is just one gun per nation it looks like.  None of the great horrid monster siege guns dug into emplacements.  A very high quality line, but scant selection on further consideration.

@ Norm Smith – I agree with you.  I certainly prefer the mix of poses that Kallistra offers, and they do look more like those grainy black and white photos we’ve all seen.  Definitely a stronger period feel based on the minis alone.

@ MartinR – You touch on a chief concern.  The visual monotony of a bunch of small  minis in earth colors teaming across large, flat, earth colored expanses of No Man’s Land.  I had a few of the IT Figures 2omm, and would love to do WWI in 20mm, but realistically I will not budget for it or paint the number required for the the desired effect.  That just won’t happen.  20mm SCW with Minairons?  Hell yeah.  But not Die Kaiserschlacht.  I just don’t have the juice for it, with other things to do.  How did you end up with three scales, just out of curiosity?  In the past, the more a war grabbed my interest, the more likely it was to proliferate into multiple scales, for different levels of engagement.

@ Angel Barracks.  Point taken.  And No Man’s Land in all its broad desolation is indeed an essential component to modeling WWI.  Further, as a foil to that, are the ‘green fields beyond’ for contrast.  6mm would best model the Western Front, if not individual flamethrower and trench raiding parties, alas.

@ Editor Mike – you remind me of a fact that tips the scale.  Irregular does have some good, dynamic little stands that pack a lot of character and period feel.  Some selective use of those will go a long way, as garnish to the Baccus steak and potatoes.  The two lines combined will give a much larger artillery park to choose from as well.

6mm gets the nod.  If the results disappoint, back to the drawing board.  In the meantime, it is multiple gun lines, trench lines, and flights of aircraft supporting the attack.

Thanks to all of you for your insights.

 

 

[William Jones]

Thanks to all of you.  Man, I love this site.  Small, but high quality, and people are ‘excellent to each other’!

The project is an odd one.  Very personal and nothing that would have any significant commercial appeal.

Some of you will remember the very old school WWI toy soldiers, such as my current avatar.  Most of these were hollow cast, roughly 54mm figures as pioneered by Britains, and painted in gloss enamel.  There was a period style to those done in the 1920s, and many clever and unusual poses.  Some examples here: http://www.toysoldier.freeuk.com/ww1.htm and some motorcyclists on this blog page: http://motorcycle-74.blogspot.com/2012/12/vintage-motorcycle-toys.html

I have always loved that style, and while watching some very old Soviet animation, the idea got stuck in my mind of Russian Civil War figures done that way, with great propaganda flourish on both sides.  This was the animation that grabbed me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZqVOFSYRWI    I see a synthesis of that animation and the 1920’s toy soldier style for sets of Reds, Whites and Interventionists.

The project would be big 30mm figures – in scale something like RPG heroic sized 30mm figures, but with the quaint, simplified and expressive sculpting  of the 1920s.  Infantry, cavalry, heavy weapons and probably field guns, limbers and tchankas.  Anything bigger than that would just be scratch built as there is no market or advantage to mass production.

I can do the sculpting, in fact that is part of the draw.  The casting though is a whole other matter, and doing the old school Prince August method does not appeal to me at my age and levels of aggro.

So, the feasibility and costs are what I’m looking at here.  Perhaps Prince August would be the route the for such a project…

I can see them though.  They are so clear that they are going to be real.  Painting with enamels will be some major nostalgia too.

[William Jones]

Is there a deadline?

And is the only requirement that the figure be 6mm, 1:285ish?

[William Jones]

Lagartija Mike wrote:

Third world bloodbaths are doubleplusfun! I’m thinking of doing a game based on Eritreans scavenging discarded prawn tails from a passing Carnival Cruise liner and then fighting over the haul. Skirmish style. Part of my Ringworm Rampant line of poor broke b@tch based warfare.

I read about two entrenched, opposing units in the SCW who were freezing in the mountains during the winter.  They steadily lost people fighting to recover the remains of telegraph poles between their lines  as the only source of firewood.  Stark stuff.  Your prawn tails are a credible victory objective.

 

[William Jones]

I’d love to know how you like the rules when you get them.  I like Coldwar Commander but would be interested in hearing how these do for you.

[William Jones]

Mike Harrop wrote:

I think £4.00 – £7.00 is about the maximum I’d pay these days, back in my GW buying days i’d have spent up to £20 on a single guy on a metal horse like Archeon or Balthazar Gelt, not anymore though, I’ve become quite reluctant to part with cash as I became older.

Same here on all points.  To spend more there would have to be truly remarkable flourish to the miniature that would make it the center piece of a unit or even the army.

[William Jones]

Gone now, and by an unknown manufacturer, from the late seventies or early eighties would be my guess.  A lean, stooped, muscular hobgoblin with a topknot, wearing a mish mash of rags, fur and mail.  He holds a heavy machete like cleaver in his right hand, and in his left has a standard with a skull on top, and a crossbar with two horsetails or scalps on the ends.  I painted him up with a grey-green skin, and he was wondrously gnarly.

[William Jones]

In no particular order and for various reasons, Donnington, Baccus, QRF, Khurasan, Old Glory, Plank Road by Good Ground.  Over the decades Donnington has probably gotten close to half of my money spent on miniatures.

[William Jones]

Don Glewwe wrote:

What would/does it take to get you interested in a new genre? Cost seems a no-brainer, but weighing that against the gain (of fun, which is difficult if not impossible to digitize) seems to me to be a dead end. What is it about a new game that gets you excited enough to justify the statement that ‘wine and internet shopping lead to nothing good’ ?

That is an excellent question.  I’ve had to chew it over a couple of days before attempting to answer it.  It is a pointed question too, as every genre we’ve committed to was once outside our box of toys, and only a notion.

The first efforts at an answer failed, as they were check lists attempting a technical answer; almost a mathematical approach.  There are so many exceptions and subjective factors at work though, that for me the answer is closer to alchemy than science.  Here are factors that matter, in an imperfect and shifting order of importance.

1.  Something somewhere has to look good.  Not just good, but gob smackingly gorgeous.  It can be the minis, the terrain, banners, vehicles, uniforms or whatever, but there MUST be strong visual appeal.  If it is all ugly, there is no sale, and the project fails.  Now, my ideas of beauty are outliers, and there are some things that are so damned ugly that they are beautiful.  Woolly mammoths.  Musk oxen.  The A-10 Warthog.  Stukas.  KV1 tanks.  You get the picture.  Visual appeal is a must.
2. Rules.  A practical, engaging, accessible set of rules is critical.  The rules must capture some essence of the period.
3. Augmenting the rules is whether the period offers varied tactical and operational challenges.  The more depth in tactical variations, difficulties and solutions, the better.
4. Figures and models.  A full range of what is needed must be in place.  I’ve done all the desperate conversions that I ever will.  No more.  Ever.  The only exception to this is 6mm proxies that can be modified with paint.
5. There should be some compelling point or points to the conflict.  A religion, an ideology, crop failure, ravening steppe nomads at one’s heels, divine rights of kings or the pure flame of revolution.  Now, the real reason for the historical war may well be some slick chicanery to prop up bogus currency, lay down a pipeline or deny access to a pipeline, that a collateral line of succession is less inbred or insane than the direct line or some other bit of banal envy or covetousness, but it should have the color of some Great Cause, or great propaganda point to it to make the conflict interesting.
6. Someone in the narrative should have some charisma, genius, or other ‘it’ factor.  Face it.  There is a kind of celebrity factor to military history, and some people had it while others did not.  Jeanne d’Arc, Henry V, Genghis Khan, Rommel, Montgomery, Patton, Zhukov, Boudicca, Caesar and even hapless George Armstrong Custer had ‘it’.  Douglas Haig, Grigory Kulik, Ambrose Burnside and innumerable forgotten commanders did not.  The first ones provide more inspiration as a rule.  There can be some entertaining use of dullards and poltroons, however.
7. Inspirational fluff.  I’m easy to please on this.  Movies, books, poems, art, anything.  Something that is both ephemeral and poignant will get me every time.
8.  Available opponents help.
9.  Being able to field one faction for about $100 helps.
10.  Tournament or convention play helps.

Now, all of the points above are factors, but the relative importance of them individually and in combination is flexible.  Only number 1 is a deal killer.  If a game is not visually appealing, I won’t replicate it in miniature.

Figuring out what I will commit to is more difficult.  WWII hits on all the points above, and doesn’t make the grade because it doesn’t hit those points strongly enough.  On the other hand,  the Korean War is a must do, long term, big scale project that shall be done and will probably be done in two different scales even though it is lacking some of the points  for WWII covers.  However, because KW hits so strongly on those fewer points, it persuades me to do commit to it.  I am buying ACW again, solely because of the quality of the miniatures from Plank Road.  AK47 Wars is still on my do list, because the RPG aspect of leaders, objectives and background are so well done that the fictitious nature of the game is actually a bonus.  The rules set, Final Argument of Kings will probably have me doing 6mm SYW, even though I much prefer the WSS as a period, but the rules have always and without fail produced an exciting, convincing game which could have gone either way and which left me wrung out at the end.  The rules set trumps the history and visuals in that case.

So, this is alchemy more than science.  Those are the objective things I look for, but some elusive subjective factors make mayhem of that list.  It is like an old map with empty areas, warning of  ‘here be dragons’, and marks where there might be treasure.  Making the journey will always hold some surprises.

[William Jones]

I expect to pay something between $1.50 and $2.00 for rank and file 25mm – 28mm.  That is for metal, which is my preference.  I know some people regard plastic and resin as comparable or superior, but for me it is always a downgrade.  The fewer the minis required, the more I am willing to pay.  I don’t mind paying $50.00 – $100.00 for an exceptional band of marauders or adventurers, and have several wish lists drawn up in that range for Frostgrave.

For the remarkable one off mini – I’ve paid anywhere from $3.oo – $50.00 on ebay for OOP stuff that impressed me.  Not often, but I have.  I doubt that I would do that anymore.  I’m honestly more interested in doing my own sculpts and getting them cast for that kind of money.

3D printing is something I am watching with interest.  Right now it is too crude and too expensive, but it is also in its infancy.

[William Jones]

I would add – Japanese kit and helmets on clearly Chinese infantry would be very welcome too.

[William Jones]

Sounds like some of Irregular’s offerings:  http://irregularminiatures.co.uk/products.php?cat=15mm&sub=Chinese%20Warlord%20Troops%20%281911-31%29&pid=13&subid=232  http://irregularminiatures.co.uk/products.php?cat=15mm&sub=Chinese&pid=13&subid=233#prettyPhoto

Warlords turn my head every once in a while, and faintly call to me, but I doubt they will ever make it to my modest lead pile much less my bench.  They are a very niche interest.  I am much more interested in some general style types that would work for the Long March, WWII, the 1945-1949 Civil War, and some of the poorly equipped infantry in the early Korean War.  More scout cavalry selection would also be welcome.  That would augment your Korean War lines, some of which I am working on right now.  Human waves can always use more variety.

Perhaps make bodies and choice of heads?  Fiddly in 15mm, but would offer a lot of flexibility.

 

[William Jones]

Mike wrote:

Ye gads, what happened?

The hiatus or the theft?

The hiatus was due to starting up a retail business that took all my time and energy and which I ultimately sold.

The theft occurred while moving from one place to another in stages, and while the old place was unattended someone backed a truck up and basically eviscerated the house of its contents.  They got about 11 tubs worth of minis and terrain stuff and so on.   I had already removed a few boxes and all of my paints, so that is where I have an odd mashup of orcs, Korean War, AK47 and Normans.  Otherwise they took everything from my desk with papers, my painting bench, family paintings and all the way down to the flag that was on my father’s casket.  Effectively they cleaned me out.

On the up side, I didn’t know what to do with all the stuff I had.  That isn’t a problem anymore.

In getting back into gaming I have an interesting position now of decades of experience and exposure, but not as much free time and unwilling to spend the money to replace what I had.  The issue now is to choose my shots carefully.  What scale?  What rules?  What will actually be painted and hit the table top?  How much of my time, energy and money will I allocate to gaming?

In some important ways this is a good thing, because prior to this my stuff owned me.   You can have so much it paralyzes you, and it had reached that point.  That doesn’t make me any more conciliatory, but it is the best way to look at it.

[William Jones]

Mike wrote:

Just been to the site, can’t get the images to enlarge like I could yesterday… Odd.

The images are hit and miss for me.  Some allow the enlargement and others don’t.  Enlargement certainly presents the product lines to more advantage.

[William Jones]

Steve Williams wrote:

Noticed today that Irregulars new site is up complete with web store All looks very snazzy now

I was startled at first and thought my computer had a bug.  The new site is indeed a snazzy and marked improvement.  Irregular Miniatures does not get enough respect IMO.  A lot of their minis look a bit rough in the lead, but paint up into little gems.  Good value, lots of variety, a lot of niche fillers, and now some much improved presentation.  Their Chinese WWII stuff is new since I’ve looked last, and calling rather urgently for mobilization.

[William Jones]

Decades ago I had a “personal figure”.   He was a CSA general with a whiskey jug and a bowie knife.  It never bothered me if he got killed or not, as I think minis exist in a state similar to Valhalla, and the next day they are good to go again.

[William Jones]

It depends on scale and theme of the army, and my tastes have changed over the years  I used to do very gritty and dirty Soviets and so on for WWII, same for AK47 Wars and to an extent the American Civil War.  Generally the more brutal and extreme the war or the army, the more I was likely to paint the army as grubby and worn, more ‘realistic’.  As I have gotten older, I am more likely to make the armies bright and vivid.

Smaller minis need the perk of bright, clean and crisp paint jobs.  I will soon be doing a 2 Dragons Norman 15mm army using the Bayeux tapestry as the primary resource for colors and shields.  The colors will be rich and they will probably be varnished to make the army jewel-like.  A Testudo Roman army with much larger and realistic figures will show more wear and tear on shields, and matte finishes because the models will reward this.

Another example is 6mm Great War.  As the Baccus line is finished out I intend late war Western Front Germans and French.  The figures will be immaculate and select details will be crisp and exaggerated.  There was an obsession a little over a decade ago to paint such small figures in medium values and dry brushed to a certain vagueness, because scientifically such a fade out is what we observe at a distance.  Sometimes the artistic lie is more ‘true’ though.  I don’t want a hazy swarm of feldgrau and horizon bleu, I want quaint little soldaten and poilus.  The larger the models are, the more likely I will weather them or make them dirty.

At the end of the day our minis are primarily markers for a game.  I want the game to be visually exciting and clear,  and pretty tables cheer me up.  Most of the weathering, dirt, and atmospherics works against that, but some themes and sculpting styles just sort of demand worn out and dirty.

[William Jones]

With ships and craft that are comparable in idiosyncratic style and high quality,  I think you are onto something Angel Barracks.

Nothing venture, nothing have.  Go for it!

[William Jones]

My post seems to have disappeared so I will try again.

Agree with Mr. Average on Cold War Commander.  Sounds like a fun and complicated AU.  Are tac nukes going to be a thing?

[William Jones]

New to this forum and new to WSS.  Two good hits in one day!

[Author]

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