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OBParticipant
Enjoyed that thank you.
OB
http://withob.blogspot.co.uk/OBParticipantLook at their wergild it’s far too high to be that of horse slaves. From memory it’s below that of the Saxon nobles and higher than that of most other Saxons. I’ve found no reference to Saxon horsemen in the Laws of Ine if you have one I’d be very interested.
I wouldn’t read too much into the panels if I were looking for evidence of Anglian/Saxon cavalry. Who are the figures depicted? Where were the panels made? Are they mythological figures or warriors on horseback? If the former it doesn’t help if the latter we already knew rich Germans knew how to ride.
As I recall Halsall’s later evidence wasn’t very good either.
The native British military tradition from Caesar to the Picts was quite horsey. If you are interested have a look at the surviving early Welsh poems not least the Gododdin. I don’t doubt for a moment that aristocratic households drilled together, took part in raids together and generally honed their military skills together as much as possible. It was what justified their status and they had to be as good as they could be.
OB
http://withob.blogspot.co.uk/OBParticipantThe Laws of Ine specify ‘the King’s Welsh horsemen’ if you want to use that as a justification. There’s no mention of the King’s Saxon Horsemen although I’m quite sure most of Ine’s nobles owned horses.
Elite Anglian or Saxon warriors might have been able to fight when mounted but that is a different thing to operating on mass as cavalry.
Halsall’s use of the Gododdin to support his theory of Saxon cavalry does not stand a close reading of that poem and from memory that is the only early evidence he used.
I’d go for mounted infantry or the Welsh horsemen.
OB
http://withob.blogspot.co.uk/OBParticipantLlanmellin sounds like an interesting story of increasing power.
The Bellona Hill Fort was picked up for next to nothing in a Department Store clear out. God knows how long it had been there. I should do something with it.
OB
http://withob.blogspot.co.uk/OBParticipantThose Vikings look very fine Truls. I have a load of them most unpainted because I couldn’t get them right. I think I’ll copy your colour scheme.
In societies where fines for transgressions ascended up the social scale a bit of colour coding would be a useful thing. Insult a fellow farmer and you can probably weather the damage of the fine. Do it to someone with a higher status and you pay more, perhaps more than you can comfortably afford. Early Irish society was coded by the number of colours a person could wear more colours meant more wealth and status and a higher insult price. It was also highly litigious and kept a whole class of lawyers in comfort.
OB
http://withob.blogspot.co.uk/OBParticipantI like that. Should you your Silures meet with success you can add another ditch and bank and then another until you have an Oppida. I have the old Bellona British Hill Fort but have done nothing with it yet.
OB
http://withob.blogspot.co.uk/OBParticipantAs I dig into this I realise I can get nearly everything I need from Minifigs Napoleonic Ottoman range. For Greek regular infantry Minifigs 1798 Austrian Fusiliers and command do the trick if you want them in helmets. If you want them in stocking cap QRF ACW have Michigan infantry in stocking cap but sadly no command to match. So it’s helmets for me.
I need some Philhellenes, tricky, and to refresh me Byron.
Estimated cost of the whole project under £70.00 but it ain’t going to get any cheaper.
OB
http://withob.blogspot.co.uk/OBParticipantThat’s the lad Mike. I read that there’s a second edition due to appear in the future.
OB
http://withob.blogspot.co.uk/OBParticipantThey do look good. If I get the chance I’ll buy some.
OB
http://withob.blogspot.co.uk/OBParticipantThanks I’ll keep a watchful eye.
OB
http://withob.blogspot.co.uk/OBParticipantYou’re on a roll keep going.
OB
http://withob.blogspot.co.uk/OBParticipantNot on your list but Ager Proelii by James Roach gives an interesting and fun punic wars game. It’s a Piquet Field of Battle derived game so cards are involved. If you can get a copy it’s certainly worth giving it a try.
OB
http://withob.blogspot.co.uk/OBParticipantMuch appreciated lads.
Yeah, the old figures have a charm of their own and if you’re in the right mood it’s a treat to paint them. Also there’s a bit of the old ‘want not waste not’ in play for me. I could never bring myself to throw away wargame figures so if they are staying they might as well be put to use. Here are the Patricios.
And the Jalisco Lancers.
Six more figures to paint and I have enough for two sides for Rebels and Patriots.
OB
http://withob.blogspot.co.uk/OBParticipantYes, a while ago Carlists and as Nick says above no problem and great toys.
OB
http://withob.blogspot.co.uk/OBParticipantI was thinking that as well as being a fun set of rules for those of us who have being pushing lead for decades Rebels and Patriots is a very cost effective way of getting into the hobby. Two sides and the rule book is likely well within the financial reach of most folk and mostly game can be as ‘historically accurate’ as you care to make it.
In the lead up to the publication of R&P I bought Papal and Garabaldini 15mm figures in the QRF sale 20% off so it didn’t cost much to have enough for two forces of 24 points each. The whole ‘Rampant’ thing reminds me of DBA in that respect.
OB
http://withob.blogspot.co.uk/OBParticipantGot my copy of Rebels and Patriots yesterday and have now had a read through. There’s a lot there and all of it looks as though it will work on the table. So far there’s only one tweak I want to make which is to allow two units of skirmishing Mamluk cavalry to combine to produce one unit of Mamluk shock cavalry by the simple expedient of lining up next to each other. Not bad for a rule set that majors in the North American theatre. I’d be inclined to do the same thing for American Indians to mimic the Comanche circle or, on foot, Woodland Indians successful sniping leading to a rush.
Although this is billed as a skirmish set it isn’t what many of us would consider by that term. For a start the figures fight by unit not as individuals and secondly there can be a fair number of figures on the table even at the basic 24 points a side level.
As an example here are units for the Crimean War with their R&P unit cost and traits as you can see you can get the equivalent of brigade size games for your 24 points.
Russian line infantry, poor shots, aggressive, large unit @ 5 points.
Cossacks, light cavalry, ‘Green’ @ 3 points.
Skirmishers @ 2 points.
It’s common enough to use 30 or 48 points a side so it’s not really a traditional skirmish as we once knew it.
Overall I’m impressed with what I got for my money and think Rebels and Patriots will do just what I hoped. I’ll likely have more to say after a first game but so far I’m happy.
For Jay above I don’t think these rules would disappoint you.
The figures above are all from Lancashire Games.
OB
http://withob.blogspot.co.uk/OBParticipantEnjoyed that thanks.
OB
http://withob.blogspot.co.uk/OBParticipantMuch appreciated. I’m painting the French camel mounted infantry at the moment I’ll post a pic here when they’re done.
OB
http://withob.blogspot.co.uk/OBParticipantYeah, I think it’s best to field Woodland Indians as good quality skirmishers in Rampant style games. Non of the tribes could afford significant losses of manpower.
I gamed Monongahela with Pike Man’s Lament and got an enjoyable afternoon and an historical result.
OB
http://withob.blogspot.co.uk/OBParticipantI’ve got a bag of Battle Honours ACW which are too big to fit with my QRF ACW armies. Very nice figures though. I’ve also got some Papal Zouaves that don’t look like the originals but with a little work could do for Canadians at Ridgeway. Size wise they match with the Battle Honours ACW. So that’s a thought.
OB
http://withob.blogspot.co.uk/OBParticipantCheers KB. I’ve high hopes of Rebels and Patriots I’ll use them for the US Mexican War and the Crimean War too.
OB
http://withob.blogspot.co.uk/OBParticipantTest.
OB
http://withob.blogspot.co.uk/OBParticipantIt has always interested me that no one says we should dismiss Penda from the historical record before discussing Mercia. Penda, as Koch tells us, in Celtic means ‘good in chiefs’-a leading warlord or over lord. He is today a mysterious figure yet he was undoubtedly important in his time.
Many in Lowland Britain spoke Celtic and Latin, in the rural districts Celtic predominated. British Latin was not debased but it tended to be old fashioned.
The Romans didn’t withdraw or disappear from Britannia the local Imperial elite were expelled during a time of civil war in the Western Empire. Roman Law ceased to operate, it had to as the Emperor’s writ no longer ran, and was replaced, as Ken Dark tells us, by a resurgence of native Celtic Law.
Contacts with the Eastern Roman Empire continued and there does seem to have been a major, and successful, evangelical effort by the Christians in Britannia.
We know quite a bit more about the ‘Age of Arthur’ than a lot of folk think-it’s just not on TV.
OB
http://withob.blogspot.co.uk/OBParticipantEntirely agree Guy, I turned it off half way through.
It would be possible to put together an interesting programme called Arthur? Koch on the textual evidence, Charles-Edwards on the big picture, Jim Storr on evidence of military engineering in the period and Dark on the social structure of post Roman Britain. Alice could even front it with or without another make over. Doubt that would be commissioned though.
OB
http://withob.blogspot.co.uk/16/09/2018 at 12:40 in reply to: Gaming the Battle of Killiecrankie with Beneath the Lily Banners #99470OBParticipantI thought I’d take a look at The Braes of Killiecrankie and see what it told us. You can read it here if you’ve a mind to and also listen to the song.
https://youdonotknowthenorth.blogspot.com/
OB
http://withob.blogspot.co.uk/OBParticipantVery nice work on the Base Coat there.
OB
http://withob.blogspot.co.uk/14/09/2018 at 10:31 in reply to: Gaming the Battle of Killiecrankie with Beneath the Lily Banners #99316OBParticipantNext weekend is the plan everything is painted so we are good to go.
OB
http://withob.blogspot.co.uk/13/09/2018 at 20:51 in reply to: Gaming the Battle of Killiecrankie with Beneath the Lily Banners #99276OBParticipantHere’s General Hugh Mackay the Williamite Commander at Killiecrankie. Below we can see his regiment which is part of the Dutch Scot’s Brigade.
There were 3 regiments in the Brigade all were at Killiecrankie. There were also two newly raised regiments this one is Lord Kenmore’s as you can see they have not all got their uniforms yet.
You can see the rest of the Army at:
https://youdonotknowthenorth.blogspot.com/
OB
http://withob.blogspot.co.uk/OBParticipantVery nice indeed Martin,
Just on ordering Roundway from the new outfit, I ordered three lots of figures from them earlier in the year. All of my orders arrived just fine. Took about 3 weeks each time.
The lack of pics on the website needs to be rectified but they are very nice figures.
OB
http://withob.blogspot.co.uk/12/09/2018 at 20:59 in reply to: Gaming the Battle of Killiecrankie with Beneath the Lily Banners #99183OBParticipantYeah, it’s grand. So far I’ve read Balfour’s Regiment didn’t fire a shot, killed 600 with three volleys, deserted their commander who was then killed. It’s like the X Files the truth is out there.
OB
http://withob.blogspot.co.uk/12/09/2018 at 11:35 in reply to: Gaming the Battle of Killiecrankie with Beneath the Lily Banners #99148OBParticipantThis project is turning into quite a saga. It’s not the painting, that’s proceeding nicely and my Williamite Army for Killiecrankie will be up in the next couple of days.
No, it’s the battle itself. Everyone more or less agrees on the outcome-it’s pretty indisputable. Beyond that pretty much everything is disputed by someone, numbers, casualties and who fought and who fled.
Next month Helion is publishing a book by Jonathan Oates on Killiecrankie and I’m hoping to get some clarity from it, Meantime I’ve been digging away and I have come to a view of what happened during the battle. It may not be the correct view but it’s sufficient to play the game.
A learning experience I suppose and a part of the hobby I enjoy.
OB
http://withob.blogspot.co.uk/OBParticipantMartin, The Keep Wargaming Crew are currently selling off some packs at a great price on ebay with pics have a gander there.
OB
http://withob.blogspot.co.uk/10/09/2018 at 15:02 in reply to: What to expect when expecting to produce your own miniatures? #99033OBParticipantVery interesting stuff. I guess making or commissioning a range of figures has appealed to many of us at one time or another.
OB
http://withob.blogspot.co.uk/09/09/2018 at 11:50 in reply to: Gaming the Battle of Killiecrankie with Beneath the Lily Banners #98956OBParticipantThat’s the Killiecrankie Jacobites done and posted on my blog. I realise this is the first time I’ve ever painted an army for a specific battle. Lots of folk do and I now see the attraction. Anyhow that’s Bonny Dundee above with the royal standard of Scotland next to him. Below are the Jacobite cavalry.
You can see the rest of them at this link.
https://youdonotknowthenorth.blogspot.com/
OB
http://withob.blogspot.co.uk/07/09/2018 at 16:19 in reply to: Gaming the Battle of Killiecrankie with Beneath the Lily Banners #98836OBParticipantComposite of detachments I’ve since found out which saves me some painting.
OB
http://withob.blogspot.co.uk/07/09/2018 at 13:12 in reply to: Gaming the Battle of Killiecrankie with Beneath the Lily Banners #98808OBParticipantThanks Norm. The rules as written look quite promising for this action. The regulars when charged have to test for what range they opened fire short, effective or long. In the battle they volleyed at 75 yards which was insufficient to stop the Highland charge. We will see how it works out in the game.
If anyone reading this happens to know if Lauder’s Fusiliers were a regiment or a composite of detachments I’d be grateful for the information. There were 200 of them which inclines me to think the latter-but it could have been an understrength Battalion.
OB
http://withob.blogspot.co.uk/06/09/2018 at 19:28 in reply to: Gaming the Battle of Killiecrankie with Beneath the Lily Banners #98737OBParticipantNext post will be up in a day or two KB . Dundee’s Horse are done! Dundee’s standard bearer and himself have yet to arrive but two figures are not a big job. Two more Highlander figures need doing as well and that’s the last Clan unit. It’s coming together.
OB
http://withob.blogspot.co.uk/06/09/2018 at 09:31 in reply to: Gaming the Battle of Killiecrankie with Beneath the Lily Banners #98682OBParticipantThanks lads.
The plan is to put up the following posts:
The Jacobite Army at Killiecrankie
The Williamite Army at Killiecrankie
The ground and deployment of both armies and the historical account of the battle
The first phase of the game
The charge begins and the effect of Williamite Fire-power
Jacobite reaction and charge home
A blog post on how the rules worked for this type of battle.
OB
http://withob.blogspot.co.uk/05/09/2018 at 21:03 in reply to: Gaming the Battle of Killiecrankie with Beneath the Lily Banners #98668OBParticipantApparently it does but I’m not speaking from experience yet. Killiecrankie is a nice straight forward battle, line them up on both sides and one side charges. I’m looking forward to the game.
I used to play Gush’s rules too, quite liked them.
OB
http://withob.blogspot.co.uk/OBParticipantYes, that’s the stuff.
OB
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