[Patrice]

The movements on the table cannot be truly accurate because your game table will never be as large as a real battlefield. The spacetime of the game cannot be proportional to reality.

http://www.argad-bzh.fr/argad/en.html
https://www.anargader.net/

[Patrice]

Marshal SinCere wrote:

“Perhaps the dice for these shots should be rolled only after their first attacking unit arrives on the ridge and can see what is behind.” This is an interesting idea. I’ve always wondered about whether the Officers leading Regiments (or maybe the skirmishers) that had just gone over the crest could somehow report back with accurate information on the where-a-bouts of the enemy. Even if they didn’t have their hands full dealing with enemy units on the other side, I’m guessing that there was no way they could give useful information anyway.

I agree with you, I was not suggesting that they could send this information to their HQ.

I was just trying to say: We are uneasy with the idea that the attacking player knows if his artillery fire is effective over a ridge; so he should not know its results when he fires (because he would take it into account to decide his next moves); so at least he should wait that some of his troops are on the ridge to know it – because the colonels of these troops (even if they cannot tell it to their big general) will then react to what they see. And we all know that the player will then move these units accordingly.

Um, perhaps I am too much skirmish-minded for this thread…

http://www.argad-bzh.fr/argad/en.html
https://www.anargader.net/

[Patrice]

grizzlymc wrote:

Patrice However you do things, if artillery with a flat trajectory are firing over a ridge (…)

Yes I accept the question is accurate; it is the precise calculations that surprised me…

I suppose it depends if the gunners really know there is something behind the ridge, or not. And, as it has been suggested, they don’t know if the fire is effective. Perhaps the dice for these shots should be rolled only after their first attacking unit arrives on the ridge and can see what is behind.

On a slightly different matter – attacking a fortress – Vauban writes that canonballs must pass just above the first wall of the attacked place, so they bounce on the opposite wall and cause death and destruction inside (Vauban, “Traité de l’attaque des places”). That would be quite difficult to quantify in a game too, the canonballs can bounce in any direction inside the fort, that’s like playing billiard blind.

http://www.argad-bzh.fr/argad/en.html
https://www.anargader.net/

[Patrice]

I try to avoid gluten.

http://www.argad-bzh.fr/argad/en.html
https://www.anargader.net/

[Patrice]

willz wrote:

say 1st bounce at 40cm (ranges dependent on rules used) the 2nd bounce would happen at 60cm and the 3rd bounce at 70cm and then have a damage length in the bounce windows (if using a D6 based game 3 bounces and 3 decreasing size of damage areas works well)

grizzlymc wrote:

but the bounce stick needs to be lengthened by the dead ground on the reverse slope where it is difficult, if not impossible to clear the crest and not go some distance (about 6-10 X the crest height) beyond. As for the chances of a blind hit, divide the area you can’t see but are targetting by the area covered by the troops. If they occupy 1% of the area, the chance of hitting should be 1%.

Um, don’t forget to multiply it by the integral curve of the angle of the reverse slope. And then, divide it by π.

Are you guys kidding or do you seriously calculate things so precisely in a game?

I suspect that you are just making fun of this other thread about Beer & Pretzels games…

http://www.argad-bzh.fr/argad/en.html
https://www.anargader.net/

[Patrice]

Not Connard Sage wrote:

That all comes down to different interpretations of what ‘realism’ is EC. All I ask from a game is that it feels right (again, that’s subjective) and produces a believable result. Moving out of period here, I believe that in FoG skirmishers are deadly because you can’t kill the buggers . They just keep evading and shooting unless you manage to chase them off a table edge. That’s not believable. You have to factor in attrition, fatigue and ammunition supply somehow.

I don’t play FoG, but I could accept that this really simulates something: not the true ability of any skirmisher unit (which as you say should suffer attrition etc), but the point of view of their opponents who are pestered by loose groups of skirmishers and could never totally get rid of them or even know exactly how many they are…

http://www.argad-bzh.fr/argad/en.html
https://www.anargader.net/

[Patrice]

Very interesting, as this 28mm range was not easy to order these previous years. And they could be useful for other European conflicts of the late 16th century.

http://www.argad-bzh.fr/argad/en.html
https://www.anargader.net/

[Patrice]

Till recently I used dark green felt and a few trees on separate bases.

Now that I am trying to improve my terrain, I am thinking about painting and flocking forest bases.

Also I notice that in real forest there is not much grass on the ground, around my home even in summer (now) it’s mostly dead leaves from last winter and some plants/thorns/bushes where they can get some light through the tree branches. Perhaps tea leaves would do, with in places some green tufts, brambles for dead branches etc (one of my next projects…)

http://www.argad-bzh.fr/argad/en.html
https://www.anargader.net/

[Patrice]

“Barry Lyndon”, as you said.

And then, as you did not mention that every answer should be seriously historical, I must confess that I like:

“Fanfan la Tulipe” (an old French film, 1952!)

and this clip from French female singer Mylène Farmer, 1988!

AAaarrggh, don’t look too closely at the uniforms etc, but it’s Mylène Farmer

http://www.argad-bzh.fr/argad/en.html
https://www.anargader.net/

[Patrice]

Not Connard Sage wrote:

The 17th century isn’t generally considered ‘horse and musket’ is it ? More ‘pike and shot’. Or if you want to be precious ‘ye pike & shotte’

Although it’s not called “Pike and shot”, but “Renaissance”.

(but then I’m biassed, as the strict or broad sense can depend of the context – in English, “Renaissance” seems to include the ECW; in French it would only mean the early 16th century).

http://www.argad-bzh.fr/argad/en.html
https://www.anargader.net/

[Patrice]

I have one of these. Good stuff.

(It fell on the ground once and broke the light but it was easy to order a spare light).

http://www.argad-bzh.fr/argad/en.html
https://www.anargader.net/

[Patrice]

The 18th century board was a request from some members and is already very busy.

But things a still a bit confusing; there is a “Renaissance” board – which in its broader sense seems to include the ECW etc – so as there is a 18th century board, a Napoleonic board, and an ACW board, it means that the “General horse and musket” board only includes the late 17th century and 1815-c.1900 except the ACW…

http://www.argad-bzh.fr/argad/en.html
https://www.anargader.net/

[Patrice]

General Slade wrote:

Unlike the French, the British artillery would of course, if forced to abandon their guns, regroup somewhere and make tea

Well, replace tea with “pinard” (red wine) and – with a good leadership – we could probably counter-attack and retake the battery!

http://www.argad-bzh.fr/argad/en.html
https://www.anargader.net/

[Patrice]

I suppose you are talking about a skirmish game, where you could still have some use for artillery crews without their big guns.

As others have said, you can’t expect them to magically become an infantry crew – the men are not really trained for it (they have basic infantry training only), and the officers and NCOs are not used to receive infantry missions.

From my modest military knowledge (compulsory service in the French artillery 1979-80) I think that if crews were forced to abandon the battery they would become totally disorganised (and probably with casualties) and the best they could do would be to regroup somewhere and defend themselves with their rifles if they can – you could not expect them to do anything else.

http://www.argad-bzh.fr/argad/en.html
https://www.anargader.net/

[Patrice]

Billy Fish wrote:

and Horse and Musket for Pirate ship gaming

Pirates (and privateers, c.1700 Caribbean etc) games often have a part of sea battle and a part of skirmish on land, and it would be difficult to separate them from their historical period.

I understand the reasons for the question, but… it wouldn’t work well.

http://www.argad-bzh.fr/argad/en.html
https://www.anargader.net/

[Patrice]

I ride a Mac 

No problems …except two days ago when I couldn’t log in into a board and not even get a password reset. But then it fixed itself?

http://www.argad-bzh.fr/argad/en.html
https://www.anargader.net/

[Patrice]

Ah OK I did not see that! Thank you.

http://www.argad-bzh.fr/argad/en.html
https://www.anargader.net/

[Patrice]

OOooops I already posted some messages and answers here in TWW, by I didn’t see this thread to introduce myself!

So, hello, I’m Patrice I live in Central Brittany (in Brittany, France), and nearly 20 years ago I was guilty of writing an unusual skirmish rule « Argad ! » and since then I continue to play with it and with some people who really like it

I run a modest French-language forum, http://argad.forumculture.net/

I usually post English translations of my game AARs on LAF and a link to them in other forums (another one since recently… and now this one), and I like to take part in historical discussions and wargaming discussions when I can.

http://www.argad-bzh.fr/argad/en.html
https://www.anargader.net/

[Patrice]

A suggestion for scratch-building here (text in French with pictures):

http://argad.forumculture.net/t879-roue-de-moulin-a-aubes#7837

http://www.argad-bzh.fr/argad/en.html
https://www.anargader.net/

[Patrice]

Allen Curtis wrote:

ponies (Bill, sculpt some)

That would be lovely! And if you need an accurate historical source…

http://www.argad-bzh.fr/argad/en.html
https://www.anargader.net/

[Patrice]

Oh yes I understand

In my example “the 1st game turn” would mean the 1st turn when the fresh troops can arrive in the scenario, = the 4th turn in your game.

Yes, scenarios with unknown reinforcements arriving at an unknown time are a good idea.

http://www.argad-bzh.fr/argad/en.html
https://www.anargader.net/

[Patrice]

Prince Rhys wrote:

The first time this dice is rolled a 6 is needed. Then for each successive turn, you minus 1 to the chance

There is another optional rule for such situations, exactly the same but starting from 1 it is easier to keep track with:

– at the end of the 1st game turn the action succeeds if the die rolls 1

– at the end of the 2nd game turn the action succeeds if the die rolls 1 or 2

– at the end of the 3rd game turn the action succeeds if the die rolls 1, 2, or 3

– at the end of the 4th game turn the action succeeds if the die rolls 1, 2, 3, or 4

– at the end of the 5th game turn the action succeeds if the die rolls 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5

page 6 of this document: http://www.argad-bzh.fr/argad/pdfs/meteo-emoticon-dice-en.pdf

http://www.argad-bzh.fr/argad/en.html
https://www.anargader.net/

[Patrice]

As I understand, it means that you want the miniatures based individually, but still consider them as a team.

(Sorry if I don’t understand precisely) but your question isn’t what they can do, but rather: “Can they do the same thing (ie: benefit from the bigger weapon) if they are based separately and not on a single base?”

Um, yes. Why not? If you want them to. You can decide that a separately-based team can do exactly the same as if they were all stuck on the same base. No problem with that.

(…but then, I mostly play 28mm, so don’t ask me )

http://www.argad-bzh.fr/argad/en.html
https://www.anargader.net/

[Patrice]

I’d prefer to see 2 or 3 more forums (“18th C”; “19 th C”; etc) and no boards at all in the forums (except perhaps in the General forum for obvious reasons), it would be faster to navigate without having to select the boards inside the forums.

“Western” is a genre with its own terrain and rules etc, it could understandably have its own forum (or board if you prefer); that’s also true of “Colonial”. But wars don’t need their own board (except WW1 and WW2 but these wars are broad periods including other events).

http://www.argad-bzh.fr/argad/en.html
https://www.anargader.net/

[Patrice]

James (olicana) Roach wrote:

Patrice, that’s especially effective water you have there – what is it?

It was done with Prince August FX special effects:

…however the friend who made this board is unhappy because of imperfections on the surface. He says that after carving the board he filled the river bottom with this plaster:

and painted it; and when dry he added the FX water effects; but then the plaster moved and it caused unwanted ripples etc on the water surface; he says we should use another kind of plaster:

But actually the ripples do not look so bad on the pictures

http://www.argad-bzh.fr/argad/en.html
https://www.anargader.net/

[Patrice]

I had no problem (yet) on this forum; I use Firefox.

http://www.argad-bzh.fr/argad/en.html
https://www.anargader.net/

[Patrice]

Nice start. I can’t find a good idea to make Eastern tile roofs?

http://www.argad-bzh.fr/argad/en.html
https://www.anargader.net/

[Patrice]

Prince August FX water effects? but it’s not cheap if you need a lot.

I have also thought about the translucent resin panel that you can find in some shops; some are very thin (but i did not try yet).

http://www.argad-bzh.fr/argad/en.html
https://www.anargader.net/

[Patrice]

I was still unhappy with my previous post which did not meet the high standards (pun intended ) of this forum, and by the lack of period sources.

I didn’t know this webpage which quotes two sources about infantry, not very clear but that could support a positive answer:

http://www.fectio.org.uk/articles/draco.htm

http://www.argad-bzh.fr/argad/en.html
https://www.anargader.net/

[Patrice]

Since a few years the 18th century also attracts skirmish players, for FIW or pirate-related games, and that’s a number of people.

http://www.argad-bzh.fr/argad/en.html
https://www.anargader.net/

[Patrice]

Astounding painting and details!

http://www.argad-bzh.fr/argad/en.html
https://www.anargader.net/

[Patrice]

Um… I always believed they had? If it were not the case, that means that SubRoman “Arthurian” infantry would not logically have any… And THAT would be very displeasing for me and some friends?

http://www.argad-bzh.fr/argad/en.html
https://www.anargader.net/

[Patrice]

Steve Burt wrote:

the cats took it as an invitation for one to go under the cloth while the other pounced from the top. This is not so good for the terrain

Obviously. Cats are not so good for the terrain.

So I did try another idea:

…use the cats for terrain.

But then you get another problem: it’s not so good for the miniatures.

“AAaaargh, an earthquake!”

 

 

http://www.argad-bzh.fr/argad/en.html
https://www.anargader.net/

[Patrice]

I was using the same old green cloth since nearly 20 years…

..then my friends actually forbade me to bring it again! and we have been making some boards…

…but we still have to make more hills and hedges.

Howard Whitehouse wrote:

wargamers (probably unconsciously) are most comfortable with terrain that looks like the landscape they are familiar with.

Yes, our tables don’t look like Brittany enough yet.

And skirmish games allow more terrain features than mass battles.

http://www.argad-bzh.fr/argad/en.html
https://www.anargader.net/

[Patrice]

The WSS / Marlburian.

…Um, in fact I prefer the 1690s (League of Augsburg) which technically is 17th century, but you cant’ have a game without someone bringing miniatures in perfect tricorns so I must say I like the WSS too.

(I game skirmish, often with privateers/pirates etc included).

http://www.argad-bzh.fr/argad/en.html
https://www.anargader.net/

[Patrice]

They were excellent warriors without bows so you certainly can play them very well without bows too

They had metalworking and other skills but not on the same level of technology and training than Ancient or Medieval armies. Native bows used by other people (African or American) were perhaps effective at very close range but nothing to compare with the Ancient/Medieval bows used for war. Ancient slings were effective with lead bullets and for shooting at large enemy groups.

http://www.argad-bzh.fr/argad/en.html
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[Author]

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