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I have them, mostly as they produced a WW2 supplement – A Clear and Present Madness. I was re-reading them only last week! I like the mechanics and have moved into the top 10 of rules I want to give a go of this year. Of course, having playing nothing for the last 3 months, playing anything at this stage seems ambitious 🙁
Do you want to know anything? Having a look at the QRS on their website should give a good idea on what the mechanics are.
I know we are going back a long way but I am only just catching up. I at least go to work 🙂
Opposed roll between the moving and stationary unit, modify as appropriate (if desired). Could be as simple as 1D6 each, stationary unit shoots first on a draw?
This is how NUTS! works in general, and my own skirmish rules I used last year based on NUTS! works exactly the way you describe! I like it.
Consequence Vs Results
I used to be a big fan of the Consequence rules. Then I read more about combat.And then played IABSM. Now I am in favour of Results. Espcially at skirmish level, everything seems very very unpredictable that the only way to represent that on the table is not to use Consequence driven sets.
I also seem to get the idea from reading histories that in WW2 squads operated as squads and did not break up into fire teams 9e.g. British doctrine was one team for the Bren, one team for the rifles, but in practice it seemsed to not happen very much!). So I like rules that are squad based and not team based.
And I agree with everything Jack wrote back at the start – squads Vs teams; card activation and then rolling is too much (I have tried it and think either is fine but both is pushing it; I like the concept but find it too hard to play), Five Core concepts give a great Results game, even if I have not tried it :-). . He wrote a lot, and saved me a lot of typing.
And then Jack wrote another post about company commanders being concerned with plattons rather than squads. Also agree with. Although I have not read many histories and the company level, I have read one from an infantry battalion commander. He was concerned with what was in each company i.e. its strength/ability to fight. He deployed companies based on that and was not concerned about platoons very much – just how the companies were going against what they were supposed to achieve. He was concerened with the reduced abilities of the companies, but not so much specifically platoons.
I find playing very Reuslts driven game, you are not fighting the system, you are attmepting to bring order to chaos. Accept the chaos and work with it the best you can to win. I find it extremely satisfying. It is unlike chess with dice, more like hearding cats. But the command and control level of war, at least up to battalion level, seems to be more like herdng cats than chess with dice. I also find it hard to releate to a soldier, which is one of the reasons I don’t do much skirmish. But love Battalion level where I deeply care about each company.
On the 1 or 6 for Five Core etc being too random. Don’t forget, on a scurry (a 1), the other side automatically also get a move after yours, and a Firefight (6), the other side gets to fire as well.
Rod’s aummary of take aways from the discussion was a good one.
I have no suggestions on rules. I have none I am very happy with yet! But I have started the search for a skirmish game.
Only the jealous lash out with war as their first resort!
” Forgive me if I don’t hold my breath…we’ll all be reenacting famous battles of WW3 before we see any reports from you…”
And this is from someone that hasn’t even finished an AAR this year. LOL. We are only up to turn 4 of one of your games in the space of time I have posted 4 and Jack 16+. Even kyoteblue has posted pictures of two different games in the same time 🙂 I think you are secretly hoping for WW3 so we do not have to find out who actually wins your game!
Jack, thanks for coming to my defense.
And yes, the British did get badly beaten up in the actual 1944 event.
Take Cover!! is an out of print ruleset from about 1998 produced by Britannia Miniatures. It is similar is scale and design to Rapid Fire. I have a very detailed rules review at this blog post:
I prefer then to Rapid Fire because the base unit is a company, while in Rapid Fire is is a battalion.
I have modified them a lot by streamlining some of the mechanics and card activation (with a joker) rather than alternating phases. But the core mechanics, even though streamlined, are similar and give similar results to Take Cover!!
The original scenario calls for one section and one platoon HQ. I left the number of figures unchanged but scaled up what a figure represents. So that is why there are only a few figures on the table. And the scenario does seem balanced. Less figures also makes the game go faster!
Joihn-Panda – I may try some narrative game reports at some stage. One day…28/02/2015 at 02:40 in reply to: What do Goats, Coyotes, Pandas and Stonehenge Have In Common? #18640
The goat in my story was likely a Druid in disguise.27/02/2015 at 06:17 in reply to: What do Goats, Coyotes, Pandas and Stonehenge Have In Common? #18602
I am about to have a gin and soda. A guy at work is retiring, and we are heading off to the pub in about 10 minutes.
I hated beer for ages, but discovered it was only bitter lagers I disliked. Guinness helped me see the light.27/02/2015 at 02:55 in reply to: What do Goats, Coyotes, Pandas and Stonehenge Have In Common? #18588
I am a frustrated writer but I am not passionate about writing enough to devote lots of time to it. I also realise my writing is ok but not fantastic and needs practice to get better. It is why I started a solo Traveller RPG blog (that went for a few months and has been in hiatus for two years). I am going to have a serious go at re-starting the Traveller blog this year. So when you threw down the challenge to write a story, I just had to respond 🙂27/02/2015 at 00:49 in reply to: What do Goats, Coyotes, Pandas and Stonehenge Have In Common? #18580
The goat muttered “But the work is not yet done. There is no end in sight (TM) to stopping the madness”.
It is the following night.
Some soldiers are out on patrol. Five of them. In Normandy (TM).
Suddenly a giant pig wanders into view. Before the soldiers can react, its guts spill open and 5 germans roll out.
“Scurry!” The patrol leader calls out and the squad moves towards the nearest cover.
Before a firefight can break out a giant cow also careers into view. And then a goat ambles up and speaks to the leader.
“Control your men. Take cover and don’t fire. I think I have it covered.”
The leader is too shocked to do or say anything. So the goat ignores him and incants something in an unknown language.
The giant animals collapse into ecto-plasmic slime. The Germans run back to their lines. The squad runs back to their lines. Only the goat is left.
“Well, that’s how the die rolls.”27/02/2015 at 00:30 in reply to: What do Goats, Coyotes, Pandas and Stonehenge Have In Common? #18576
Ivan, I did try to fit in something concerning you into the story but it would have required another page to set it up and did not have the time. But then neither is the Trojan pig or sheep or cows.27/02/2015 at 00:12 in reply to: What do Goats, Coyotes, Pandas and Stonehenge Have In Common? #18573
Ok. I saw the title of this thread and could not help my writing urge. I wrote this up at lunchtime at work:
A menacing fog quickly appeared in an empty field on Salisbury plains at midnight. After a few minutes, is dissipated as fast as it had formed. The field was no longer empty.
“What the f*ck!?” shouted a quizzical marine, one of several dozen now occupying the field. “This is not Iran! And it’s dark!”
“Calm down soldier,” said a sergeant, seemingly the most senior there. “What’s your name?”
“Hey, that’s my name!” said another.
A quick pass around the soldiers and it turned out all were called John, except one.
“Your name, soldier?”
“Nope. Just Jack.”
It turned out none of the marines knew each other, but all were part of Desert Storm. Or at least, they used to be part of Desert Storm.
“Where are we sergeant?”
How the f*ck would I know, he thought but instead said “Not sure, lets head up north and see if we can find something”.
“Hey!” Jack called out, “Over here! I have found something.”
He was standing near a bush that was moving. The something turned out to be a goat. And the goat said: “Hurry, we haven’t much time. I’ll explain on the way to-“
“F*ck, a talking goat! Sergeant, for f*ck’s sake, faster! A f*cking talking goat!”
The sergeant strode up “This is surreal. I’m losing sanity points here. Jack, what –“
“We haven’t time!” the goat interrupted. “Listen, I’ll make this fast. Follow me. “ The goat started walking. “You were somewhere else a few minutes ago weren’t you?”
One of the John’s nodded. “Iran.”
“Well, that’s not all. It July, 1944. The eldritch horror is about to be unleashed and we have to stop it.”
The goat cut through the confusion. “Haven’t time for the details. We needed some soldiers from the future, all name starting with J. Or else we haven’t a hope.”
“But why J? Why us? Why soldiers?”
“You haven’t the background and we don’t have the time. Ah, here we are.”
The soldiers peered through the moonlight a few hundred metres in front of them. It was a circle of standing stones arranged in a circle.
“F*ck me! Stonehenge. This is getting crazy!”
Jack added “Getting crazy? It is 1944, and we followed a talking goat to Stonehenge . I think we are already crazy.”
The goat was staring at the stones and murmuring what sounded like incantations and then suddenly shouted “I call upon Punda the great god of the Long Light!”
There was a flash and in the centre of Stonehenge there appeared an enormous Panda
The goat spoke “Oh dear. Being a goat certainly is not great for refined speech, I have called up a Panda, not Punda.”
“But can it help us fight the, um, what was it, the eldritch horror?”
“It just an ordinary Panda.” the goat answered. “It’s no War Panda.”
Another flash in Stonehenge and a 3 metre monster appeared. Half man, half octopus. It shimmered with slime and imposed a menacing presence into the night.
“We are nearly too late!” the goat cried out. “This is only a sliver of Cthulhu. A little more time and he will be larger and unstoppable. Plan B. You are all from the US of A, right?”
The soldiers nodded feebly, mostly mesmerised by the unknown entity.
“Ok, then we have a chance…” The goat started murmuring again and ended with a shout “I invoke the Cobalt Coyote, the Great Protector of the World in Balance and the Flames of War.
A flash in the sky and a great blue coyote appears above Stonehenge. The Cthulhu sliver shivers, trembles violently and then disperses in a cloud of vapour. The coyote looks at the soldiers, nods, and fades away.
While the soldiers are staring dumbstruck into the night sky, the goat murmurs some more and suddenly the soldiers and the panda disappear. Only the goat is left.
“Well, that could have gone better.”
I note that reading your Tigers on Minsk AARs gives me the same feeling of balancing the clock with fighting.
Normally I do not play against a clock – it is trying to reach the objective(s) before your troops force morale breaks. In all the Operation Jupiter games so far I have been every aware of the clock, and that has been a good thing.
It was a solo game. For most of the game, the Churchill, to get close enough to be able to bring its fire against the buildings, would need to advance to within potential distance for a panzerschrecke. So it was only in the last 2-3 turns of the game it could move, and I seem to remember it did not always activate. So turn 9 it got to the farm and during turn 10 the Germans withdrew so it was no longer required. So it is exactly as you thought – a reluctance to go where the infantry had not been.
And I am thinking of starting an ancients campaign (but have been thinking of doing this for a few years so we shall see!); obviously I still believe playing ancients makes me be in with the cool gaming crowd 🙂
I must admit that I partly started the Ancient rules replays to try and find a good ruleset, but there was to other larger parts – the first was to test out the various Ancient rules I had. Authors wrote them intending to be played and not just read. So I thought I should play them at least once to see how they went. There are a few rulesets I just cannot bring myself to try out though. This was a small reason when I started (in 2010) but has become the great one as I have gone on. The other main reason I started was there was a lack of reports showing in detail how the rules mechanisms works. Lots of reviews of rules, but not that many with actual blow by blow account of actual mechanisms. So my AAR reviews of a ruleset show exactly how the mechanisms for a ruleset works on the table.
I cannot bring myself to do this level of detail for WW2 rules, but do want to try them out.
I also seem to have lost the ability to play a game in many small sessions. I used to play (and write notes for) a game over many 10-20 minute breaks spread out over weeks. I have found it harder to do now in the last year or so. I am trying to get the ability back! I think it is because I have too many projects going on. I only had replaying different ancients rules for the first few years.
Attempted to not prolong this discussion but failed…
“It’s funny but I’ve contemplated making videos comparing different rule sets using the exact same scenario and employing similar tactics on both sides. It might sound completely boring to some but I’d love to compare results (die random factor considered I think to would be very interesting)”
This is exactly why I started my blog, but for Ancients on a 2’x2’ board. I have done 27 rulesets so far using two different battles (After the first 12 I switched battles). I found that trying to use the same tactics is sometimes not viable due to the ways the rules work, mostly around the different morale systems used.
I had vague plans to do the same for WW2. I realised a few years ago that I just could not bring myself to do it for both Ancients and WW2. So for WW2 I will use different rules with different scenarios and not so much analysis.
Oh, and I have played Warhammer once, back in (I think) 1994. Not fond. Can see its appeal though. For WW2 I was brought up on Tractics and then Combined Arms (with house rules) and occasionally pine for a rivet counting game. But then I get better!
I don’t play enough WW2 either. While I love Ancients, the spectacle of WW2 always makes it a close second. I love reading rules too and am definitely a rules junkie. I started blogging to test out all the different Ancients rules I have. After about 25 of them, I decided to write my own flay play set for a 2’x2’ table. I must have about 100 WW2 rules as well and have consider testing them out as well. In fact, since early last year I have had a 2’x2’ table setup and two draft blog posts ready to play out two easy rules. I have 8 other rulesets chosen ready to play, just to see how they work on the table, rather than in my head. But I got distracted by my own rules again. I loved Take Cover!! when I used to play it in the early 2000’s but some of it is a little clunky. All I am doing with my rules it trying to streamline Take Cover!! Over 2014 it seems that I am fairly content to how my rules work and I like them! They are designed to be very fast and for a battalion with a ratio figure scale of 1:10. But I have the itch to scratch to play the other rules. While I do not make gaming resolutions at the beginning of each year as I know shiny distractions will occur, I really want to get in 2-3 WW2 games with some different rules. I seem to be able to cope with lots of different Ancients rules, but I find WW2 harder to move between rulesets.
I find I cannot play if the kids are around. They are still young-ish, and everyone says you will regret not spending as much time as you can with them at this age so I tend to find time for them when I can. My wife and I are catching up on some movies and TV shows we have been wanting to watch since last year, so the small free time in the evening is with her rather than the minis. And lunchtimes (when I have them!) I used to read about gaming but I am engrossed in an ancient Roman detective series (Marcus Didius Falco) and read it instead. And I also have a distracting sideline project that I mull over in my mind (portable WW2 game based on the old CCG Tank Commander).
I dream too that when they are older it means I may have more time to play but again, discussing it with others it may or may not be the case.
Regardless, it sounds like both you are I are having a great time, whether we are pushing figures, reading rules or doing something completely non-gaming.
Bolt Action does seem interesting and have a story with it. I have a friend I have known for only about 3 years. When I first met him, he play Warmachines lots and was playing it competitively. Bolt Action came out and he took that up with a vengeance, even running some tournaments. As he says WW2 is amazing – there is all this history behind it (he could not care at all about the fluff behind Warmachine). Just before Christmas he got introduced to Chain Of Command. It is now his rules of choice and plays it lots. I have read about gamers going Fantasy -> Bolt Action -> CoC but never met one!
Careful Norm. If you mention 20mm people will start going off about it being “the one true scale” (for ww2). My view? Of course it will work! It is the one true scale after all 🙂
Well done Panda-John.
I have commented in you tube but one thing struck me – the rules. Bolt Action? Do you changes rules every six months? I did not think you played often enough to change rules all the time
“I’ve got two more fights to write up, but so far haven’t found the discipline to sit down and do it”. You are having a go at me aren’t you Jack 🙂
What is this snow thing you all talk about? Before airconditioning, we did used to have a rule in Queensland that school was out if the temperature was 40 Cclsius or over (that’;s 104 Fahrenheit to the non-metrics). 40 doesn’t happen often but when it does…
There is a wallaroos rugby club in Australia. To us the jumping animals are all kangaroos or wallabies. I recognised our definition as I had to look up Wallaroos just like you did. It is an animal, and the term is still obscure!
And it is capitalised not capitalized when in Australia! The other definition of capitalised that you refer to in unknown is Australia where we are all mates and would never do such as thing as you suggest 🙂 Australia is a real place as is Canada and part of the Commonwealth. Does the rest of your family still talk to you now you are under the English crown? 🙂
Oh, and Panda you need get all the name of the animals right. However, no-one says wallaroo unless discussing the rugby team. Wallaroo is obscure; the rest are not. M favourite name is the numbat. I guess the names are strange, unless you live here. I assume you are jealous as we have so many exotic species and Canada is too cold to have an except the moose 🙂 The downside is we also have 9 of the 10 most venomous animals in the world – my Dad was bitten by the second most deadly snake in the world (Eastern Brown) in the backyard in suburbia. He survived, just. Many don’t. We don’t have anything that will eat you – just kill you off!
And Jack (I wrote “the carpet hill guy” here but thought that was unkind) should be proud that you capitalised Marine. And ancients is actually my favourite genre of miniature gaming but I do WW2 to remind myself how the others live 🙂
Still glad you are alive; If I don’t visit TWW for about a week I have to log in again.
Good? It even has pictures!
And that Trojan pig lived up to its name – it was full of Germans!
Glad to see are still alive.
It was only too hard if it was not true! And the AARs are for Operation Jupiter. I had no time while at the beach to write them up, and since coming back and going to work the next day I seem to have very little time to spend on the computer relaxing. Just lots of things going on, nothing dramatic and I am sure it will calm down in the next few weeks.
I am glad I have 3 AARs of games up m sleeve that I have played but not had a chance to write up. I would feel sorry for what you said about War Panda except it was the truth!
I have bookmarked a bunch of available pre-painted T-26s and BT-7s after our last discussion, but have still resisted. Only just though.
The URLs are not from facebook. As the images may not be shared via FB, I copied the images from Johns’s facebook page into my google drive. I then made the latter publicly available.
I never saw anything but the image squares in both posts. Strange it is.
When I first tried to get the images to display inside the post, I got exactly what you get – 4 image “markers”. So I edited the post to the actual links, rather than try and embed the image. They are on google drive and I have shared them to be publicly available.
I was not sure and erred to caution. Out here in the colonies it still gets regularly used but I think you have to be over 40 to get away with it 🙂
Ivan, I have a gas stovetop – popular over here (there are underground pipes for it), especially as it cooks better than any of the alternatives (only mine and thousands of others opinion of course!).
I have re-edited the post and created links rather then embedding the images. The links work for me!
At kyoteblue’s request, here are the four photos from his facebook timeline:
(Images insertion did not seem to work so re-edited and put in links)
1. Barbarossa Game Two , German front line with Inf. platoon in the fore ground.
2. Barbarossa Game two looking west from the Russian front lines.
3. Barbarossa Game Two also looking west from the Russian front lines. German Pz IV across the table.
4. Barbarossa Game Two looking east from the German front line.
Just this once as I don’t want to make a habit of it, I could copy the four photos to here…with your permission of course.
Ivan, I don’t “do” facebook either but am on it – mainly as a lot of the events we get invited to happen via facebook. I can then keep track of what we might be doing.
I can see the photos now. It all makes sense.
Last year I could see some photos you had posted to your facebook timeline but I can no longer see much, so I have sent you a friend request. Just so you know it is not some other Shaun.
I see where you are coming from Jack: Marine life and marine life may possibly describe something different. Possibly. At least one of them is more interesting.