To follow on, just as I have always used limbers (artillery) and train (same caissons) from the WRG heydays… again my 25mm Minifigs©:-

IMG_4561_Corps Artillerie Parc .

And for artillery:-

IMG_4545 12e Cie 5e Regt d’Art a Pied (1er Dv)

by DaveW, on Flickr.

cheers

In Search of The 10eme Legére- Part Deux

Continuing the discourse… these notes may be somewhat dated, taken from my own records and diary of scratchings, but I’m making an effort to clean up what I can to make them coherent.

There has been some great info on the ‘Boulogne Camps’ and effort put into training soldiers to become sea-worthy; sailing. rowing etc. and handling various naval cannon and marine/ ship security etc,; all of which gives credibility to the overall ‘veteran status’ of the Grande Armes various units.

But the details are still missing on uniforms. Of note now it has been found that Knotel (DJ- The Younger) known as bullet-proof artistry, acknowledged to have made some errors when his/their sources were re-examined, gives red cuffs pointed to the 10eme, whereas the Martinet prints shows standard blue.

Also two artists conflict over the same 1810-12 period of pointed or standard Swedish cuffs.

I’m going with pointed blue cuff piped white as the most common early habit; distinctives all the same as 1807+ but without the fancy brass scale epaulettes.

My ‘incarnations’ over time varied. I’ve reassessed earlier ‘assignment’ of troops and agree with the view that side-plumed shakos are the predominant legere headdress of this  post Consular epoch.

In fact, what I thought I had done in ‘assignment’- grouping the unit with figures up to 5 years ago (!), wasn’t that clever. They are all drooping horsehair and upright left-side plumes. I’d left options open by storing both shako ‘elites’ and bearksin/ colpack versions, but I’m refining those down to just bearskins for carabiniers.

Campaign variations in the units will include stripped bearskins and grey/blue overalls for some carabiniers but voltigeurs* in side plumed (green tipped yellow) shako only.

Following those figures being sorted, I decided upon specific ‘command’ and tete du colonne figures, but again the terrible business of specific distinctive/ colour attribution imperils!

*The 10e Legere being a part of the St.Omer/ Boulogne camp since 1803 (Soult 4e Corps d’Armee). Did they exist at all? We know the 15e Legere had them, as Davout swept up that regiment and called them out in reports.

Some assistance came my way with suggestions that:

“Petits Soldats de Strasbourg has later uniforms for 10e Legere which you could draw on for tete de colonne”

This was one of the ‘later’ sources I was referencing earlier. I tend to have a lower value for authenticity* of such plates because they may have been and were reproduced (original lithos) and recoloured simply for sale to anyone without caring about the accuracy (or originals). Martinet plates being another great hoax source of mass produced and erroneously coloured lithographs.

**I learned this lesson the hard way, at not too much cost, when I bought some loose plates purported to be ‘originals’ in Paris but my publisher friends extinguished enthusiasm quickly by pointing out (and taking me to la sabretache library to view THE ORIGINALS) they were 19thC/ repros- good but not “originals”.

I decided to stick closer with 1807 standard uniform designs and colours I’d say on 1805 attributes uniforms. I reviewed Bucquoy again and even his lack of specifics points to black hole about the regiment.

Reviewing the regiments progress at the end of 2020 I had noted for myself — All 1801 shako regimental dress. Chasseurs (nearly all) primed in blue w green epaulettes-distinctives; falling horsehair plumes on left.

Elites to be sorted and detailed; as at Oct20 there is no documented proof of any bearskin/ ourson (neither text, regulation nor illustrations) being worn in any period least of all by 1805, so these are rejected.
The only records of regiment are from 1807-08 period forward when two new forms of uniform existed between 1807 and 1810. The early period is missing.

In reviewing my own archives I found the Benjamin Zix- from life illustration shows a carabinier in walking out dress in shako with right hand side mounted red plume, at cafe with others! Dec20-*Dr P Martin Strasbourg (own collection!).

Agonising over the details of the regiments uniform once again, I side-stepped the issue and decided Gen. Morand and his aides would be an easier target in the interim. So they are well progressed to completion- both mounted and on-foot versions just for a ‘difference’, since we know they did go on foot at the battle in ‘conference’ with his peers and colleagues.

So in 2021 I completed modifications on the elites and tackled the command, both in figurines and colours of musicians; neither the blues of later musicians but a harking back to the to the period of ‘reversed’ colours, even if the colour didn’t actually exist! Red facings with yellow border lace is a pretty common adoptive in the post-Consular period among many regiments (eg artillery corps).

The ‘rest’ were still in wardrobe or make-up awaiting building!

Actually the relief of finding the Zix illustration (made in 1803 from real life) was enormous- it permitted me to extend a detail of uniqueness to my new unit, the right hand side plume on a shako ‘a la hussard’ with a red flamme!

My reasoning for creating modified elite company personnel begins with this ‘real life’ watercolour by contemporary illustrator Benjamin Zix; an illustrated engraving dated 1803 of a “Fracas’ at an inn” between various French regiments and some attractive locals.

Notably identified is the 10e Legere Carabinier and a musicien of an unrecognised unit. However I’m happy to apply an ‘by association’ rule and say he could also be from the 10th Legere.

–Plate #9 reprint from Dr P Martin Strasbourg publication (taken from own collection!): Soldaten Im Bunten Rock -The French Army 1789-1807 W.Keller

A close up of this real life reference!

The uniform details are interesting and not without speculation on their accuracy, despite being very close to ‘regulation’.

While the basic uniform is as expected, the variations we see depicted are from top to bottom:

1- 1801 shako with plume on right hand side; also a red flamme ‘wing’ edged black, wrapped around the shako body (which therefore covers any plate that may have been worn); and a single cord in white adorns the right hand side, ganse and silver button, while it wraps around the shako with just a knotted front section. Again notably the racquetes and flounders are suspended only by a single cord.

2- A white tab and apparently a minute button on front collar.

3- A red or scarlet veste, not blue or white. These are rarely noted but not unknown.

4- Pointed cuff piped but shown with apparent piping also on the sleeve opening seam (which I’d assume is in error).

In Order-
Epaulettes, belt, blue piped white overall habit (long tails) and breeches, black gaiters piped (colour indistinct but we could assume red) and an older style briquet being carried for persuasion.

Distinctive features and relatively easy modifications including some additional painting to make an even more distinctive unit.

Was the regiment wearing this a year or two later? Who’s to say? We can see that they did get new uniforms issued by or during 1807 as multiple documents have shown the ‘new’ uniforms with ‘modernised’ features- 1806 shako; doubled cords, revised plumage, colours and placements etc. for soldiers and a stated tete-du-colonne.

Certainly I was surprised to read in the post battle ‘Situation’of Dec 4 1805 that the regiments costume was in general “bon etat”.

I should say, as I’ve been scouring my own hidden and buried treasure resources now that ‘events’ have plateaued, I’m using Michel Petards excellent if dated article “L’Homme de 1804- Le Chasseur d’Infanterie Legere” as the basis for my 10e Legere with variations I’ve been able to discern.

Published in 1979 in ‘Uniformes’ No.31 and the bound Album #6; pp20-26 covers contemporary illustrations and regulations. Where derivations are noted by him, I’m using the same synthesis for my own unit and what information has appeared since. They include plates from Hoffman, Zimmermann, Otto and Berka. His own artwork of course is superb.

Which of course for this unit in particular, is mostly for the mid-Empire and nothing for the first two years apart from my Zix plate. Full size copies are on the Flickr site.

-TBC…

Reading through parts of ‘Alombert P. C., Colin J. : « La campagne de 1805 en Allemagne’ I found this small, but interesting commentary on the preservation of their horses, from none other than the First Aide-majors generaux of Berthiers Etat-Major-Generale- GDV Andréossy (Antoine François).

A job you would think was below that of the first officer of an army headquarters, but no…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antoine-Fran%C3%A7ois_Andr%C3%A9ossy

General Andrèossy au . Petiet*. Nordlingen, 15 Vendemiaire year xiv (7 October 1805). I have the honour to inform you that detachments of the 5th, 8th, 9th, 12th, 16th and 26th regiments of dragoons*, leading injured [-wounded?] horses, have been ordered to go to the castle of the Princess of Wallenstein, three quarters of a mile from Nordlingen tomorrow.

These detachments consist of 4 officers, 18 non-commissioned officers, 191 dragoons, and 233 horses. I ask you to give orders to provide for their welfare until they receive a new destination. Andrèossy.

Notes:
1- *Petiet- not sure which one this is.
Given this number of animals became the equivalent of a regimental strength two months later, their preservation must have been seen as important.

2-The regiments cited, bar the 26eme, were all from Soults Corps ‘under command’ 3rd Dragoon Division, who saw active service and far reaching marches far to the East of Ulm in the October campaign portion.
~d

A post-mortem one could say. As I missed any reference to this in 2021 before. Is it really a ‘grave’ if they were merely ‘disposed of’..?

I’m a little put off by the wording “mass grave” given the entire issue of a single handful, compared with the mass destruction of humanity since then and ongoing indefinitely :-

Austerlitz Grave

…and the tartar on their teeth revealed traces of nitrogen and sulphur, elements of gunpowder, probably left by the men opening gunpowder bags with their teeth—a common practice in the Napoleonic era. DNA analysis showed that the men came from different parts of Europe.

Interesting, they remained hidden so long!
regards dave

General Ménard- But which one?

A brief article on my internet search, not wholly satisfactory, for a ‘General’ cited by Davout in his reports and memoires.
Substantially, the known data and records follow.

127. TO THE EMPEROR AND KING  &c.
Presbourg, 5 nivôse.
Sire,
Your Majesty ordered me by letter of the 22nd of this month, to send a more detailed report of all the troops I commanded on the day of the Battle of Austerlitz.
I have the honour to report to Your Majesty…
“…the Friant division of Raygern Abbey; this division was formed into 3 brigades marching in stages.
The 1st* was composed of:

– 1st regiment of dragoons temporarily detached for a few days from the Klein division,

– the 2 voltigeur companies of the 15th Light Infantry Regiment and
– the 108th Line Infantry Regiment;
it was commanded by General Heudelet [de la Biere to give his full name!].

The 2nd under General Kister, was composed of the rest of the 15th regiment of light infantry and the 33rd of line.

The 3rd, commanded by General Lochet, was made up of the 48th and 111th regiments.

General Bourcier’s dragoon division was marching to the right; it was composed of the 15th, 17th, 18th, 19th and 27th regiments.

These troops marched first on Turas…”

It is also stated in *Davouts Memoires that the 1er Dragons had been positively placed under command of Heudelet.

One must realise that Davouts entire Corps was strung out of 120kms or more of Central Austria and the Moravian province. It’s order of march was chaotic, simply because of the ‘positioning’ of their  respective Brigades.

Either N. or Davout had designated the III Corps deployment to face Pressberg, now known as Bratislava, the Capital city of Slovakia.

It is approximately 50km East of Vienna. His designated First and Second Divisions were the ‘frontline’- facing the ‘unknown’ in no mans land of Eastern Austria and Hungary, where Erz.Karl army was possibly expected to arrive from Italy.

[*]Thus we find that his nominal Third Division was West of Vienna, on the route closest to Brünn and therefore became in Davouts words in reports and memoires, his ‘redubbed’ Premiere Division.

And Davout was not at home either, when his finest and talented Chef de l’Etat-Major le général Daultanne received the following orders from an Imperial ADC:

Major-Generals (Berthier):
28Nov 1805
–
MAJOR GENERAL to MARECHAL DAVOUT
Brunn, 28 November 1805, 8pm evening hours.

It seems certain Marshal, that tomorrow or the day after tomorrow we will have a great battle beyond Brünn.
His Majesty orders you to leave immediately with your two divisions to make a fast march on Brünn.
–
This was delivered immediately and Daultanne knew its importance. Instead of waiting for the Marshal, he issued immediate orders to Friant to prepare and march out that evening. They would not stop except for the regulation 5 minutes per hour for the next 3 days and sleep.

A separate ADC was despatched hastily to find Davout and deliver the news.

It is not until the forced march of the Heudelet reached a position on the Turas fringe that we learn more.

0800 approx. Davout Memoires repeating his battles reports, states that while he was marching with Heudelets brigade, about 8am or just after, an officer from the 8e Hussards* approached them to advise that the 3e de ligne was under serious attack again at Tellnitz, and to hurry to their aid.

It is also stated in Davouts Memoires that “the 1er Dragons had been positively placed under command of Heudelet”.

Davout continued “On this information I made the Friant Division march [instead] on Tellnitz, and I ordered the 1st regiment of dragoons commanded by General Ménard to execute this with greatest speed, and to prevent enemy who had taken Tellnitz from leaving [exiting]this village.

So who was this ‘General Ménard’?

Not a name I was familiar with, and recorded in any OB that I had searched or possessed myself. Only one exists in Georges Six ‘Dictionnaire biographique des généraux et amiraux français de la Révolution et de l’Empire : 1792-1814’ – MÉNARD – Jean-François Xavier de), général, né à Sumène (Gard) 1756.

His biography has no explicit reference to commanding a regiment, as a General, at Austerlitz. Such a matter shouldn’t be seen as unusual- Davout had several non-standard organisational staffing matters, and this is one of several.

While his story is common with others- joined an infantry regiment of the Royal Army, transferred to a Netherlands regiment still a lieutenant, thence became an Administrator in the community of Gard. With the national call up of 1791, he served with rank of captain for a year and then was ‘advanced’ to the role of ADC to a general; within 2 years he was a Commandant (of a town) and then adjoint to Etat-Major of fighting the Vendéens. By 1795 he was positioned in Paris and still in 1800, when he was formally promoted to Adjudant-Général /chef de brigade (Colonel) 30 juillet 1799.

Général de brigade 10 août 1802; he was employed at the Camp at Brest, 12 mars 1804. He was awarded Legion d’honneur commandeur in the general awards of June 1804.

In 1805 after the Grande Armée had formed and marched from the coast to Strasbourg and the Rhine- he was appointed ’Chef d’état-major du 2e Corps de réserve à la Grande Armée, 25 septembre’.

This is pretty much where the trail finishes. However, a separate offical document holds a surprise. The ‘Etat militaire de France – de la République française et de l’Empire français pour ANXIII- 1805’ shows there was a certain “General de Division Ménard” detailled as Commandant (Quartier-General) at Besancon.

It just so happens that this is where Davout ‘picked up’ the 15eme Legere regiment for his Corps. He cannot have failed to meet the Commandant, and discuss the coming campaign. Is this the General concerned?

However, searching the wiki stables we find another same-named Ménard- this one Philippe Romain- born 1750. This one was promoted to général de brigade in the l’armée d’Italie in 1794. He became an understudy to André Masséna and by 1798 was taking action in the insurrections of Helvetia. For which he was promoted to général de division and was one of the early recipients of the Legion d’honneur 1803, thence commandeur in the general awards of June 1804.

Sadly the wiki provides no further information. The next paragraph simply states he retired in 1806!
And the Legion d’honneur site and database gives little information to identify either of these Generals. Both were Generals de Division and little specific information clarifies the matter.
Sources:
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Fran%C3%A7ois_Xavier_de_M%C3%A9nard

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippe_Romain_M%C3%A9nard

Etat militaire de France – de la République française et de l’Empire français pour ANXIII- 1805

http://napoleon-monuments.eu/ACMN/Menard.htm

-davew

Guy Farrish wrote:

I think you missed the ‘relevant’ bit:

Sorry I was cut-short by impositions on my time, err interrupted in authoring yet again- 8 hours later (maybe) I have completed it… I trust.

The citation carries a number of sweeping statements that do, in fact mislead. E.g. if you can conflate a tiny, one and a bit regiment/ brigade to ‘Division’ then you could also just say the ‘army was marching on the same point’. Neither is helpful… but he was using the ‘formation’ designation rather than a specific component.

[[Having said that- I know what Davout was saying- First he had orders to march on Brünn; then he was ordered to ‘come closer’ via Turas and hold.]]

Then he got the 4am (2 Dec) orders to change direction yet again- as N. had ‘guesstimated’ via Savarys night time recce etc. that the Allies were pushing considerably further >South than he expected.

Thus; in leaving Raigern approx 0530-0600, and already marching forward PAST the Mönitz-Tellnitz-Sokolnitz lower Goldbach heading toward Turas, he decided to march via the Southern aspect of Tellnitz (avoiding another pond).

On the trail there he was confronted by ‘that officer from Margaron’ who gave clear and explicit indication of the danger to the 3eme de ligne and Tellnitz post.

Davout according to his memoires/ reports cited gave these clear instructions to each and every person, Heudelet down. He then went backwards (West) to the next marching column, that of GDV Friant AND Kisters Brigade. By comparison, Lochets Brigade was a further hour behind.

Quite a few changes without breakfast and 3 days of forced NIGHT marches to contemplate. Sounds like your worst game possible if you think about it. And they still fought most of the day (well, 6 hours at least)!

Put them in the front of a potential 20,ooo enemy and you can see that Auerstädt was no accident. At least he had all three Divisions then!

I hope my additions have exorcised any brain damage, my apologies 🙂
d

Guy Farrish wrote:

Also I have him down as compulsorily retired in 1806 because of insanity – to my shame I have not noted the source and cannot at the moment find a reference to th

Hmm thanks, yes I was the culprit!
Interesting info- so that clearly tells me why theres no LoH documentation. Must have been a fast decline to get awarded and two years later pensioned off entirely. Had quite a colourful career beforehand as well- not everyone handles the jobs he did.

So it would be now without much doubt that Jean-François is my man.
Still seems a little strange that such a role, and in such company, wasn’t adequately documented. Also, his professional life in the infantry, then as staff and administrative officer through the staff ranks, doesn’t indicate any wisdom in the cavalry spheres?

I realise that unlike the Brits and some others, French numeric sequence of titles isn’t of any significance. After all 5-6 years later they were disbanded and became lancers! So being the premiere regiment has no caché. And did their Colonel mind being ‘ridden’ by his own personal General? May have to seek out a Regimental history.

Thanks for the input, maybe you should update the wiki for him Guy?
And on another bent, this now means I do have to create at least a portion of the 1er Dragons, with well appointed ‘General’ in tow.

regards dave