Home Forums WWII Are we starting to over weather our vehicles?

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  • #59934
    Norm S
    Participant

    I have just been browsing some lovely WWII models, but a recent comment on a forum somewhere mentioned that the expected life expectancy of a combat vehicle probably meant that such heavy weathering was commonly unlikely.

    That combined with crew discipline involving looking after their kit, I just wondered whether as gamers / modellers, we have started to stylise our vehicles in an overtly artistic way to the degree that we now believe that we are achieving the right look, while blurring the boundary of looking good and being realistic.

    I really have no idea, which is why I ask.

    • This topic was modified 4 years, 5 months ago by Norm S. Reason: spelling
    #59938
    Mike
    Keymaster

    Possibly, I am sure scale modellers over weather the weathering!

    I do like the look of moderate weathering for wargames vehicles, and for scale models any weathering is good.
    There are some truly amazing examples out there and the skills are very impressive.

    One conversation I was witness to was about how a respectable tank crew would not let the tracks rust, but rusted tracks are a weatherers greatest love!

     

    😀

    #59940
    Ruarigh
    Participant

    I’m not sure about the weathering, as it is not something I normally do much of, but Mike’s right that mud and dust can accumulate really quickly. Just look at your car after a day out for an example of that. Rusted tracks always confused me, because I’ve never seen any tracked vehicle with rusted tracks when working on building sites. The tracks are usually fairly shiny. I’ve seen mud in abundance in between the tracks and rust on other parts of the vehicles, but not rusted tracks. Maybe tank tracks are different. I don’t know.

    Never argue with an idiot. They'll only drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

    https://envirocitizen.eu
    https://emidsvikings.ac.uk/

    #59948
    willz
    Participant

    I think weathering is down to personal choice, I weather my WW2 vehicles with a dry brush of earth then when that is dry white / earth mix.  Though when I see well painted tanks with no weathering I can fully understand why some people don’t weather their vehicles, it is hard having spent a period of time painting something to then put dirt over it.  On the same vain as stated I weather my WW2 vehicles but I do not weather the uniforms of the figures I paint be it WW2 or 18th century, go figure?

    #59957
    PatG
    Participant

    Not WWII but in a war gaming magazine a while back I saw a beautifully painted, weathered and artfully rusted BMD. Top notch work at all stages of the project except of course, BMDs are made of aluminium and don’t rust. This is less of an issue for WWII of course.

    #59966
    MartinR
    Participant

    I used to paint my tank tracks as rusty, mainly based on the tracks I saw on diggers etc, but of course they spend a lot of time sitting around in the rain and not driving any significant distances.

    These days I paint them mud. In both cases I’d highlight the metal bits coming into contact with the ground as steel.

    Not too hard to switch from rust brown to mud brown.

    I don’t bother weathering war gaming pieces, just slap a load of mud on then, with a pale dust highlight. Makes the rivets pop.

    "Mistakes in the initial deployment cannot be rectified" - Helmuth von Moltke

    #59971
    Etranger
    Participant

    It’s been going on a long time. Especially chipping and rust (outside of exposed mufflers) which can look really nice but I think are often way overdone. When I think about it too much, it makes me roll my eyes so far back I see my brain. 🙂

    On the other hand, dust and mud can accumulate in large amounts in less than an hour.

    I fully agree with that. On another forum at the moment there’s a beautifully finished Puma armoured car being shown, BUT it’s chipped and rusted to buggery, which seems entirely inappropriate for what would have been a new vehicle, having been produced within a few WEEKS of the nominal date of the model. Mud and dust yes, some bare metal on wear points possibly, but rust would have been a rare sight on vehicles in service.

    A nice muddy Sherman on a test track.

    For an example of metal, the 38t tank and derivatives often have a bright metal ring on their wheels where the metal wheel rubs against the back of the metal track, removing any paint.

    Tank track colours are slightly tricky, as some countries, notably the Germans, painted them a red oxide colour, http://www.network54.com/Forum/47207/thread/1297693979/German+Tank+Tracks which is a somewhat ‘rusty’ colour.

    Even after many years, they don’t go that rusty either!


    From http://www.questmasters.us/panzer_parts.html

    Personally I do them a red-brown shade, dry brush with gun metal or similar, black wash, and brown or sand wash them. Those tanks with rubber block tracks (mostly US built tanks) get dark gray over the rubber parts.

    A Sherman with rubber block tracks.

    • This reply was modified 4 years, 5 months ago by Etranger.
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    #59972
    Ruarigh
    Participant

    That’s a great photo, Tim. Thanks for that. And plenty of mud on the vehicle too as reference for muddying up wargames vehicles.

    Never argue with an idiot. They'll only drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

    https://envirocitizen.eu
    https://emidsvikings.ac.uk/

    #59978
    Etranger
    Participant

    Some Churchill tracks had a very high manganese content, which didn’t rust. (It’s in Fletcher’s book, which is in my shed!)

    On a slightly unrelated topic, how about an Iraqi Churchill! From http://www.primeportal.net/tanks/rich_sahli/churchill_photos.htm

    also https://milinme.wordpress.com/2013/11/03/the-royal-iraqi-army-1957-military-parade/

    • This reply was modified 4 years, 5 months ago by Etranger.
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    #59982
    irishserb
    Participant

    My weathering mostly consists of light application of darker mud around the lower part of a vehicle and a light dry-brushing of dust, which mostly disappears in photographs.  I’m always in too much of a rush to do much of a quality weathering job.

    I go back and forth on the rusty track thing, as depending on the vehicle, I find both rusty and rust free example of vehicles in active use.  In the last year, I did this while researching both M60s and Centurions. One photo would show a rust free vehicle during an exercise, and next would show a column moving down a road, and the all of the track surfaces that weren’t engaging the road or other mechanical parts would have a coat of rust, if not dust coated.  I think it just depends on the age of tracks, the metallurgy, and the environment in which they are operating.

    I don’t know that it matters in a good v. bad sense, as I think there is a tendency for gamers to paint models in a way that is attractive, but using methods that yield other than realistic results.  Black-lining creates wonderful miniatures, as can washes, but black-lining doesn’t often look realistic to me, and washes often result in an antiqued style of finish that is attractive, but again, doesn’t strike me as realistic in many instances.   I see it as an artistic style of presentation, sort of in the same way, that all of Norman Rockwell’s depictions of children are similar in style, even though they are more diverse in real life.  The presentation is still well done and inviting.

    I think that many of our games tend to be, in different ways, passionate and artistic renderings, more than technically accurate representations.  Rules can use very abstract methods to represent and resolve actions, often yielding acceptable results, while modeling the mechanical events in a manner that doesn’t directly mimic the real mechanisms very closely.  But, the results of the process are acceptable and well embraced by us as gamers.  The way that we embrace our games is often through the eye of the romanticist, more than the engineer.  Over-weathering and stylistic painting is just part of the artistic rendering  of the game as I see it.  Maybe not always technically accurate in every way, but full of passion, effort and quality.  And I think that is okay.

    Also, I don’t mean to imply that the original poster or anyone else was view the weathering as good or bad, or anything, I am just sharing my perceptions of the hobby as it relates to the question.

     

    #59996
    MartinR
    Participant

    The colour of that Churchills tracks are what I’d call ‘rust’, even though it isn’t actually rust at all.

    I was just looking at some film of some FV432s, and they’ve also got interesting wear points on the drive sprockets, like the Pz 38. Time to break out the silver paint I think!

     

     

    "Mistakes in the initial deployment cannot be rectified" - Helmuth von Moltke

    #60042
    Etranger
    Participant

    I used to wonder why they would put white wall tyres on the 38T!

    #60055
    Russell Phillips
    Participant

    I find myself wondering if this began with GW. From what I remember of Warhammer 40K, rust and the like would be entirely fitting on at least some vehicles (orks, for instance, probably wouldn’t put much effort into vehicle maintenance).

    Mostly, though, I’m of the opinion that if the owner is happy, that’s all that really matters.

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