Ooo, controversy!

[Not Connard Sage]

“Warhorses really rather small” claims expert.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/jan/10/medieval-warhorses-no-bigger-than-modern-day-ponies-study-finds

Obvious contrarian and passive aggressive old prat, who is taken far too seriously by some and not seriously enough by others.

[Jon Jyler]

That’s interesting – may be relating to one area only.

[Jim Webster]

The Dura Europos Horse armour was for a similar sized horse. Here’s a photo of a pony wearing it in the 1930s when it was excavated. Roman cavalry horses seem to have been about the same size as those in the article, 13 to 14 hands with 15 hands being tall

https://jimssfnovelsandwargamerules.wordpress.com/

[Patrice]

I can well believe it. Most of the animal breeds (and vegetables too, etc.) became much larger in the 18th and 19th century.

http://www.argad-bzh.fr/argad/en.html
https://www.anargader.net/

[Guy Farrish]

Up to a point Lord Copper – but not really controversial.

There’s a bit of a discussion on this very forum :

Renaissance Horse

admittedly a bit later than medieval, but similar ball park with an allowance for Tudor attempts to breed bigger and stronger horses. (Henry VIII was looking for 15 hands as a stallion for an ideal breeding horse in 1540, and accepted that ‘saddle horses’ for military requisition would be c14 hands – These regulations were the first laws to define horses in ‘handfulls’).

Ann Hyland and John Clark both put the warhorse of the medieval period around 15 hands tops (possibly 16 in rare examples) but 14 hands and below would cover many of the lighter cavalry types – think Welsh Cob rather than some of the imaginative 18 hand Destrier of myth.

Border horse, prickers, coustilliers, currours were probably all 14 hands max.

So nice confirmatory research but probably old news (although 14.2 probably includes a lot of horses that were not knight’s mounts to drag the average down).

[Not Connard Sage]

 

The article looks set fair to cause a bit of controv at Another Place.

Obvious contrarian and passive aggressive old prat, who is taken far too seriously by some and not seriously enough by others.

[Guy Farrish]

I’m shocked! Shocked I tell you!😏

[General Slade]

Weren’t people a bit smaller in the past?  I mean it’s all relative isn’t it.

And in other news, I used to like playing Scoop when I as a kid.

[Guy Farrish]

Generally speaking they were shorter in England during the Middle Ages.

Between c600AD and c1600AD the mean height of men fell and rose again several times, fluctuating between c170cm and 174cm.

This is the average of course and you will find the odd 2metre skeleton long with a lot of sub 170cm serfs.

A good intro is found at:

Height of Englishmen

[OB]

Good early nutrition is the key.  I’ve read some interesting contractual requirements on the feeding of fostered young nobles so I’d say people knew that back then.

Bit surprised to see Oxford University talking of Englishmen in the Roman period in your link Guy.  Not really many English about in Britannia then.

OB
http://withob.blogspot.co.uk/

[willz]

So basically what you are saying 30mm figures should use 25mm horses, 20mm should use 18/15mm horse and so on and so forth for all scales😁.  So that will open up a new market in trading online and at bring and buy’s.

[Usagitsuki]

As said, all rather old news. Contemporary illustrations of mounted warriors in the Medieval period show them on small horses. But I doubt if any figure manufacturer will be making their medieval horses that small any time soon.

Sengoku 'blog: https://tenkafubu608971038.wordpress.com

[Guy Farrish]

OB wrote:

Bit surprised to see Oxford University talking of Englishmen in the Roman period in your link Guy. Not really many English about in Britannia then.

I know. It really makes me hesitate about trusting it every time I read it! But the rest of it seems pretty in line with what we know so I give them a pass!

It’s a lazy shorthand.

Of course it raises or avoids, depending how you look at it, a real controversy: did the population of lowland Britain change in the post Roman period and if so by how much and how?

Invasions/migrations/elite cultural change? Discuss – but probably not in this thread!

[OB]

No doubt there.  Koch thinks DNA research will answer a lot.  But, as you say-not for this thread.

OB
http://withob.blogspot.co.uk/

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