06/06/2022 at 11:39 #174151
I wrote a short piece on why the Aztecs lost and Moctezuma’s role in that.
Alternative decisions might have brought the Aztecs some breathing space. It could have been different.
If it is of interest here is the link.
http://withob.blogspot.co.uk/06/06/2022 at 13:12 #174154Not Connard SageParticipant
Have you read Diamond’s book?
Obvious contrarian and passive aggressive old prat, who is taken far too seriously by some and not seriously enough by others.06/06/2022 at 15:19 #174160Darkest Star GamesParticipant
“His successor was Cuauhtemoc a thoroughly able man. Today he is a Mexican national hero. Moctezuma by comparison seems mainly to be associated with stomach disorders.” So much truth in those sentences!
I’m not all that read up on the Aztecs, do you think they would have been able to actually produce steel weapons and armor? I would figure only a very few of the Spanish that went with the expedition would have the knowledge, and any that survived would probably have been sacrificed.
"I saw this in a cartoon once, but I'm pretty sure I can do it..."06/06/2022 at 16:44 #174165
Yes, I have a copy.
http://withob.blogspot.co.uk/06/06/2022 at 16:50 #174166
“His successor was Cuauhtemoc a thoroughly able man. Today he is a Mexican national hero. Moctezuma by comparison seems mainly to be associated with stomach disorders.” So much truth in those sentences! I’m not all that read up on the Aztecs, do you think they would have been able to actually produce steel weapons and armor? I would figure only a very few of the Spanish that went with the expedition would have the knowledge, and any that survived would probably have been sacrificed.
No, the I think the only steel available to them would have been from Cortez’s Expedition had the Aztecs won. They were quick to use the steel weapons they actually got their hands on.
The Tlaxcalans had been making copper cross bow bolts to a Spanish spec’. That might have led somewhere.
http://withob.blogspot.co.uk/06/06/2022 at 20:11 #174179Mark MorinParticipant
If the Battle of Otumba had gone differently, or really if Cortes (with an s not a z btw!) had been dispatched on any innumerable opportunities then perhaps the Aztecs may have endured for a time. However, when you wage incessant warfare on your neighbors and take up to 20,000 of them for sacrifice annually year upon year, or just show up annually to also take their food, you’re going to have enemies. Lots of them. All they needed was a way to combine forces and the Spanish arrival did just that. Montezuma was in the end a prisoner not just of the Spanish but of his religious beliefs that saw the Spanish as the beginning of the apocalypse – one that ostensibly all those human sacrifices were supposed to stave off by satisfying Huitzilopochtli. Thus, his actions towards the Spanish were more of resignation to the concept that he was at the “end of times”, which was ironically true for his empire. His tries at treachery were at best half-hearted and incapable of being executed – but they did exist. Interestingly, I have not seen information that smallpox ravaged the Tlaxcalans to the degree it did the Aztecs. One would think it did, as the Tlaxcalans and others made up the vast bulk of Cortes’ forces. The one factor that to me made all the difference was Hernan Cortes himself and his ability to cajole and manipulate his opponents (and allies) as well as meet them in battle. If he had been rolling dice the results he got would have been considered waaaay outside the bell curve. Nice informative post.
Mark A. Morin06/06/2022 at 21:26 #174181
The Aztecs were not popular with their neighbours for good reason and they paid the price. An Imperial lesson maybe.
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