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  • #157598
    Mike
    Keymaster

    When you embark on a new game – period – something, how do the players approach learning the rules?

    Do all players learn the rules, does one player learn and teach the other(s) ?
    Other?

    #157599
    telzy amber
    Participant

    No all the other players do not learn the rules. You learn and tech the others. Some of the others come on fast, some don’t. Some never learn and just push toys around. Depending on personalities the others may be happy with that.

    #157601
    John D Salt
    Participant

    Typically, the sort of game I play would have an umpire/control/gamesmaster to orchestrate the flow of the game, and act as a reference for rules points. Lots of games don’t actually have many rules — I’m thinking here especially of John Bassett’s multi-player politico-military games, where each player is given a personal briefing as to their objectives, which manage a maximum of interaction with a minimum of mechanism. Even if there are a lot of rules, the players often don’t need to know them to play, and indeed my longest-standing wargaming pal always says “I refuse to learn the rules on the grounds it would compromise my amateur status”.

    When I run one of my “multi-player solitaire” games, I like to over-brief the players horribly, so that they are mildly stressed by trying to remember all the information in the briefing. They will make the decisions, move the pieces, and roll the dice, but I operate the game and report the results. Often the hugely-detailed briefing conceals the almost complete absence of actual rules, which I cheerfully make up as I go along.

    All the best,

    John.

    #157602
    Phil Dutré
    Participant

    One player – usually the host/umpire, has read the rules. He then explains them during a game as we go along.

    This is usually repeated for all the following games using that same ruleset as well 😉

    Tiny Tin Men Blog: http://snv-ttm.blogspot.com/
    Wargaming Mechanics Blog: http://wargaming-mechanics.blogspot.com/

    #157604
    Thomaston
    Participant

    I play solo so I have to know the rules, but I have a bad habit of skimming it for the least I have to know.

    Tired is enough.
    I like tiny miniatures

    #157609
    Shaun Travers
    Participant

    Depends on the players.  For some, it is me that learn the rules and teaches them.  For others we all read the rules and find out all our strange interpretations during the game.

    #157610
    Steve Johnson
    Participant

    My friends and I will get the book, read the rules, then as we play, figure out any ambiguities, discover bits we hadn’t twigged in the read through etc. After a few games we’ve either learnt the rules as we enjoy them, or ditched them as they don’t deliver the sort of game we like. Keeping to the same stable of rules also helps moving across periods, so Warlord Games ‘Black Powder’ and ‘variants’ being a case in point.

    #157611
    MartinR
    Participant

    I read the rules, but that is me. I like reading rules. Amongst my regular players, the amount of rule reading is…. variable. Like some of the others above, the person running the game usually acts as an umpire/host and operates the mechanisms. This is particularly the case in a remote environment.

    I often just make things up as we go along, rules can’t cover everything.

    "Mistakes in the initial deployment cannot be rectified" - Helmuth von Moltke

    #157641
    irishserb
    Participant

    The majority of games that I have played over the years have been homebrew rules, with the host having “written” the rules, presenting the game and more often than not, playing in the game.

    Second most frequent would be the case of all or most of the players having read the rules, with the host playing, and the game more or less running itself.  These have frequently been naval or space ship combat games played as part of a campaign.

    Lastly would be the case of one of the guys hosting, teaching, and usually playing in the game as well.

    #157642
    Thuseld
    Participant

    I am basically a solo player so only I must know the rules. However, on the rare occasions where I have an opponent I am the rules teacher.

    #157644
    Arthur Hannan
    Participant

    I guess i tend to teach others but i’m never as good at explaining as i like to be so using books with pictures really helps.

    WWW.EZPAINTER.CO.UK - My miniature commission painting site (been running 12 years, hit me up for work)
    WWW.WICKEDWARGAMES.WEEBLY.COM - The wargames company i run with a friend.

    #157647
    Sane Max
    Participant

    We tend to go like this – person x buys the rules, likes them. tells person b they are great, gives him a game, person b likes them, buys them, points out all the mistakes person a made running the game., they try again, person c watches buys the rules, likes them and plays person b pointing out all the…. well you get the idea.

    After about what, 10 years playing Hail Caesar occasionally, I finally bothered the read the quick reference guide at the back and discovered half a dozen mistakes we had all been making all along, often on the assumption it was the same basically as Black Powder and Pike and Shottttte.

    I will also never forget the time, playing Kings of War (not my thing, but you have to make an effort) when I declared a number of charges. My oppo, who thought he had me on the ropes was ‘no, you can’t do that’ – i forget what it was precisely, but he, and all the others playing it, had assumed you had to declare all charges at the same time so couldn’t charge a unit out of the way and then charge the unit that cleared to charge IIRC – only to discover to his HORROR i was correct, just because I had not played before and had read the rules with an open mind.

    Maybe it’s me, but I am really crap at remembering rules. I suspect I play too many very similar games.

     

     

     

     

    #157655
    John D Salt
    Participant

    After about what, 10 years playing Hail Caesar occasionally, I finally bothered the read the quick reference guide at the back and discovered half a dozen mistakes we had all been making all along, often on the assumption it was the same basically as Black Powder and Pike and Shottttte.

    Fairly recently I finally got round to buying my own copy of “Panzerblitz”, a game that had mysteriously avoided my collection for almost fifty years, despite the collection including many examples of its descendants (including the nominally-Panzerblitz “Hill of Death”).

    Gosh, was I surprised when I discovered what the rules actually said, rather than what I had assumed they ought to say.

    All the best,

    John.

    #157660
    MartinR
    Participant

    There are some quite odd things in the Panzerblitz rules, particularly the treatment of stacks of units. I tend to ignore them and just use the Panzer Leader versions or my own variants instead.

    "Mistakes in the initial deployment cannot be rectified" - Helmuth von Moltke

    #157663
    ian pillay
    Participant

    Mainly being a solo gamer, I tend to know the rules as does my opponent. We never seem to disagree on rules interpretation. We just enjoy a good game….😉

    Tally-Ho!

    #157664
    McKinstry
    Participant

    Typically a couple of the group buy the rules and teach the rest. We usually follow a gradual process in which we start with small games and add size and complexity as we continue to play.

    The tree of Life is self pruning.

    #157665
    Geof Downton
    Participant

    Mainly being a solo gamer, I tend to know the rules as does my opponent. We never seem to disagree on rules interpretation. We just enjoy a good game.

    I am also mostly a solo gamer (if a gamer at all) these days. Neither I nor my opponent ever know the rules properly, and bicker constantly over interpretation. I think the disagreement with myself, and settling on an answer is the most enjoyable part.

    One who puts on his armour should not boast like one who takes it off.
    Ahab, King of Israel; 1 Kings 20:11

    #157700
    deephorse
    Participant

    Do I know the rules?  Mostly, but never as well as the authors do.  And that’s because, in my experience, several of them are unable to successfully put on paper what is going through their heads.  And if they do then they can’t arrange that information on the page in a logical manner.  They, and their play testers, are so familiar with the rules that they fail to spot the gaps in understanding that the paying public will encounter when they purchase a copy.

    Less enthusiasm, please. This is Britain.

    #157701
    Norm S
    Participant

    If I host the game, I will get a good handle on the rules.

    When I play solo (often) I get a good handle on the rules and write myself a sheet out containing impotrtant but easily forgotten important points.

    When I am the guest, I rely on the host knowing the rules and also guiding me away from pitfalls …. I.e. we are not competitive gamers, helping each other is part of how we play.

    #157702
    nigel Tullett
    Participant

    Could not agree more with deephorse’s comments, I am fed up with publications full of irrelevant stock illustrations rather than a set of rules that have been fully play tested. There are so many sets of rules offering the ideal gaming experience which are sold blind with very little information such as unit sizes, average force make up etc etc. My position now is not to waste any more cash on any rule system without joining the relevant Facebook page if there is one and look at the queries – questions etc which come to light in the real world.

    #157706
    Mike Headden
    Participant

    Do I know the rules? Mostly, but never as well as the authors do.

    In my experience the authors have gone through so many iterations of the rules that they know less about them than anyone!

    Personally I like some eye-candy in my rulebooks, though I would prefer fewer of oversized, overpriced 32mm figures and more of the sizes I actually use.

    Currently really enjoying a read-through of the 3rd Edition of 5 Parsecs, from Ivan Sorensen and Modiphius. Nicely laid out, nicely illustrated, inspirational and, being solo, if something isn’t clear/ isn’t covered* I’ll have no arguments over my house rules 🙂

    *Looking pretty comprehensive so far, to be fair.

     

     

    Growing old is mandatory, growing up is entirely optional!

    #157711
    Sane Max
    Participant

    Do I know the rules? Mostly, but never as well as the authors do.

     

    I can assure you Rick Priestly was rubbish at his own rules. I watched a Grand Final  Game between two GW store managers where player A declared something, his opponent disagreed, and they asked Rick. He had no idea either.

     

     

    #157712
    Patrice
    Participant

    In my experience the authors have gone through so many iterations of the rules that they know less about them than anyone!

    It’s quite true. Some of my usual players know better some details of the latest versions of my own rules than I do when these details have often changed.

    http://www.argad-bzh.fr/argad/en.html
    https://www.anargader.net/

    #157716
    Mike Headden
    Participant

    Do I know the rules? Mostly, but never as well as the authors do.

    I can assure you Rick Priestly was rubbish at his own rules. I watched a Grand Final Game between two GW store managers where player A declared something, his opponent disagreed, and they asked Rick. He had no idea either.

    Can confirm, have played Warmaster with him 🙂

     

    Growing old is mandatory, growing up is entirely optional!

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