- This topic has 40 replies, 23 voices, and was last updated 6 years, 9 months ago by
Ivan Sorensen.
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26/10/2017 at 21:20 #74886
Mike
Keymaster“It’s Vasel’s status as an authority figure within the tabletop gaming space that makes his statements, delivered as part of a series called Board Game Breakfast, all the more troubling.”
“I may not necessarily want to play a game where there’s a bunch of people cursing up a storm at one table or speaking sexist, misogynistic talk at another table or treating me like scum because I just wanted to join their gaming group,”
Because that never happens online?
26/10/2017 at 21:27 #74887zippyfusenet
ParticipantShould I worry that I have not heard of him?
I never heard of him either. But you got me to click on the story. Hi-ho.
You'll shoot your eye out, kid!
26/10/2017 at 21:28 #74888Etranger
ParticipantNeither have I, nor of his ‘organisation’. A legend in his own mind perhaps?
26/10/2017 at 21:47 #74889Rhoderic
MemberI think I’ve heard of the Dice Tower Network and one or two of the podcasts in it before, but only very peripherally.
This controversy seems to be mainly to do with the boardgame community, and the non-wargame boardgame community at that.
26/10/2017 at 22:05 #74891Not Connard Sage
ParticipantWho?
Obvious contrarian and passive aggressive old prat, who is taken far too seriously by some and not seriously enough by others.
26/10/2017 at 23:25 #74896Guy Farrish
ParticipantI love it that the segment he messed up in was called ‘Tom Thinks’!
Not long enough or hard enough apparently.
Save me from self appointed ‘authority figures’
26/10/2017 at 23:35 #74897Dan Kennedy
ParticipantI spend quite a lot of time on BGG; Tom Vasel is highly thought of by many.
I am not one of them.
It always astonishes me how big fish in very small ponds lose their sense of perspective…
27/10/2017 at 06:08 #74913McKinstry
ParticipantI have heard of Dice Tower although I’d not heard of Tom Vasel. Having clicked on the link, his absence from my awareness was no loss on my part.
One more internet twit that looks as if he could use a little less time at the keyboard and a bit more time outside actually moving around.
The tree of Life is self pruning.
27/10/2017 at 06:14 #74914Temporary like Achilles
Participant“Game nerd expresses opinion. Other game nerds profess to being troubled by said opinion.”
A situation as rare as hen’s teeth!
27/10/2017 at 07:30 #74916Phil Dutré
ParticipantNever heard of the guy.
I do visit BGG regularly to look up things, but usually don’t bother reading reviews. I prefer to discover and appreciate games by playing them, not by reading what other people think of them. And yes, that sometimes means I wasted money on games that turned out to less liked by my gaming group, but I consider that part of the gaming experience.
27/10/2017 at 18:32 #74987durecellrabbit
ParticipantI’ve heard of him but have not followed him. Honestly I don’t really pay much attention to anyone in the hobby as an authority figure.
27/10/2017 at 18:54 #74988Norm S
ParticipantThere is a heavily subscribed thread on part of this over on BoardGameGeek, where views abound 🙂
Disclosure …. I gave a ‘thumbs up’ to the comment by CasualCasual at the bottom of page one, because I also want my town centre (in the UK) to prosper and be diverse (it isn’t, its dying!)
LINK –
https://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/1859745/tom-vasels-thoughts-save-local-game-store-movement
27/10/2017 at 19:17 #74996Not Connard Sage
ParticipantOn further reflection, I:
Hardly ever play boardgames these days.
Don’t have a friendly local gaming store.
Have never played a game at a FLGS.
Hardly likely to ever play a game at a FLGS.
Am not American.
Therefore Tom Vasal, whoever he is, is irrelevant.
Charles Vasey however, was/is a different bucket of dice 🙂
Obvious contrarian and passive aggressive old prat, who is taken far too seriously by some and not seriously enough by others.
27/10/2017 at 19:22 #74998John D Salt
ParticipantCharles Vasey however, was/is a different bucket of dice 🙂
Indeed, my initial reaction to the headline was to think “someone can’t spell ‘Vasey'”.
All the best,
John.
27/10/2017 at 20:03 #75003kyoteblue
ParticipantHow, odd.
27/10/2017 at 21:15 #75010Guy Farrish
ParticipantI confess I thought we were talking about the Vassalengine – a way of playing boardgames online:
28/10/2017 at 14:25 #75074Cerdic
ParticipantI was going to reply but find that Connard Sage has already said everything that needed to be said!
Etranger – or, legend in his own lunchbreak…
28/10/2017 at 22:06 #75094A man without minis
ParticipantI’ve heard of him, and find his reviews very useful. But then I’m an American who plays many board games.
I didn’t watch the video but from the article I’d say that many of his comments are accurate. I don’t buy much, or ever play, at the FLGS. For me, the internet is my connection to the broader gaming community. It also sounds like he’s had bad experiences gaming at the FLGS. It doesn’t really surprise me.
29/10/2017 at 08:06 #75104Etranger
ParticipantDeleted. Sorry Mike
29/10/2017 at 09:17 #75106Mike
Keymaster29/10/2017 at 09:27 #75107willz
Participant???
If it helps I am a legend in my own lunch break
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29/10/2017 at 09:50 #75109Mike
Keymaster??? If it helps I am a legend in my own lunch break
.
A few comments have been made about his weight.
29/10/2017 at 09:53 #75110Deleted User
MemberWe live in a time where you can become a celebrity for doing little or nothing. It simply doesn’t bother me if Tom Vasal is pukka ‘Personality’ or not.
I have many friends on TWW I haven’t met & probably will never meet. That’s weird if you stop to think about it. There’s characters on TOW (The Other Website) who I equally have never met & whom I despise – admittedly with greater justification for their extremist &/or distasteful views. So a Wargaming Personality isn’t anything out of the ordinary nor anything to rail against.
Certainly, if his point is he doesn’t want to game with objectionable people, I can’t criticise him.
donald
29/10/2017 at 13:49 #75127Thaddeus Blanchette
ParticipantAnother way of looking at it is that we live in a time where you can specialize to a ridiculous degree. Tom is indeed a “boardgaming celebrity”. As we’ve seen, that’s such a specialized niche that it doesn’t even extend to miniatures gaming.
I just relax and enjoy the fact that I am a 3mm sci-fi miniatures wargaming celebrity. Although Mat’s slowly taking that title from me: the Lady Gaga to my Madonna. 🙂
Warhol got it wrong. In this brave new world, everyone will be famous for far longer than fifteen minutes. But only for about a half dozen people or so.
We get slapped around, but we have a good time!
29/10/2017 at 14:34 #75135Rhoderic
MemberI just relax and enjoy the fact that I am a 3mm sci-fi miniatures wargaming celebrity.
I’m sorry, do I know you?
29/10/2017 at 18:02 #75156Thaddeus Blanchette
ParticipantI just relax and enjoy the fact that I am a 3mm sci-fi miniatures wargaming celebrity.
I’m sorry, do I know you?
No, but the chicks dig it.
We get slapped around, but we have a good time!
30/10/2017 at 17:33 #75232Noel
ParticipantI’ve always been a board gamer, but these days I’m much more of a board gamer than a miniatures gamer (that has not always been the case).
Tom was one of the early online board game reviewers and he has managed to build up a brand, a company, a convention, a charity and a full time job out of it. He’s been a consultant to board game publishers.
The Dice Tower is something of a giant in board game reviewing. There are several people that have been able to monetize their reviewing and have become minor celebrities, but the Dice Tower is the most successful of them. There is no denying that he has a measurable influence on the industry.
I don’t particularly like their reviews and the personalities of the reviewers. Their approach is Quantity Over Quality. It’s been discussed that they only play games once or twice before reviewing them these days, which is in contrast to Tom’s earlier, more in depth reviews. Tom is a pastor (as is one of the other reviewers on his site) and, occasionally, his religious views impact his game reviews.
The ‘movement’ to support local stores creates some friction in online discussions and manufacturers that offer deeper discounts to brick and mortar shops are often the subject of derision — just look at the comments section on the linked article. Tom threw himself into this and it came to light that he has some partnership or business interest in one of the big online game retailers.
30/10/2017 at 19:37 #75244Rhoderic
MemberIsn’t it also true that the boardgame community and the boardgame industry are much bigger than their miniature gaming counterparts? Like, orders of magnitude bigger?
Or am I misremembering some old forum discussions I’ve read about this topic elsewhere in the miniature gaming community?
30/10/2017 at 19:38 #75245Mike
KeymasterIsn’t it also true that the boardgame community and the boardgame industry are much bigger than their miniature gaming counterparts? Like, orders of magnitude bigger? Or am I misremembering some old forum discussions I’ve read about this topic elsewhere in the miniature gaming community?
It would not surprise me.
30/10/2017 at 20:38 #75250Rhoderic
MemberNot to get too far off topic, but I must admit that I find the “geography of geekdom” rather interesting. If boardgaming (even excluding stuff like chess and Monopoly) is like the London Metropolitan Area, then miniature gaming is probably like Stoke-on-Trent or something.
“Probably” meaning “I’m just pretending I know what I’m talking about” in this case
30/10/2017 at 20:49 #75251John D Salt
ParticipantIf boardgaming (even excluding stuff like chess and Monopoly) is like the London Metropolitan Area, then miniature gaming is probably like Stoke-on-Trent or something.
Much easier to get oatcakes in Stoke than in London.
All the best,
John.
30/10/2017 at 21:21 #75255Guy Farrish
ParticipantNB That’s Staffordshire Oatcakes to the rest of the UK (and world).
Not to confused with the Scottish imitation:
30/10/2017 at 21:48 #75258Rhoderic
MemberI’m a Britophile foodie; I make Staffordshire oatcakes on occasion and I love them
We’re still on topic, right? Yeah, we’re on topic.
30/10/2017 at 22:09 #75262Victoria Dickson
ParticipantNot to get too far off topic, but I must admit that I find the “geography of geekdom” rather interesting. If boardgaming (even excluding stuff like chess and Monopoly) is like the London Metropolitan Area, then miniature gaming is probably like Stoke-on-Trent or something. “Probably” meaning “I’m just pretending I know what I’m talking about” in this case
I think board wargaming is well down on where it used to be, the original big publishers disappeared at the end of the last century. European style games and Big Box games with plastic figures seem to have taken their place on game shop shelves. All the great board wargame magazines went too so far as I know, The General, Fire and Movement, The Grenadier. You can still get the old style games, but they do seem more of a niche thing now. 🙁
30/10/2017 at 22:54 #75267Rhoderic
MemberNot to get too far off topic, but I must admit that I find the “geography of geekdom” rather interesting. If boardgaming (even excluding stuff like chess and Monopoly) is like the London Metropolitan Area, then miniature gaming is probably like Stoke-on-Trent or something. “Probably” meaning “I’m just pretending I know what I’m talking about” in this case
I think board wargaming is well down on where it used to be, the original big publishers disappeared at the end of the last century. European style games and Big Box games with plastic figures seem to have taken their place on game shop shelves. All the great board wargame magazines went too so far as I know, The General, Fire and Movement, The Grenadier. You can still get the old style games, but they do seem more of a niche thing now.
Yeah, I was referring mainly to Eurogames and “Big Box” type games.
To me, that’s the standard, natural definition of boardgames in the up-to-date sense. As someone just barely young enough to qualify as a Millennial by a hair’s breadth, I honestly have a difficult time imagining a scenario in which I could have come into contact with old-fashioned board wargames while growing up. They just weren’t around. Eurogames and “Big Box” games were, alongside their contemporaries like CCGs and – obviously – video games.
30/10/2017 at 23:16 #75268Victoria Dickson
Participant31/10/2017 at 03:30 #75275Noel
ParticipantAs a teenager, I spent months taking a weekly, hour-long train ride after school to go to a shop that carried Avalon Hill games, just so I could hold the box of The Longest Day while I saved up for it.
I used to dream of collecting ASL and going to conventions to play in tournaments.
I read the print-only catalog that came in each game’s box and fantasized what wonders each title would bring.
31/10/2017 at 08:06 #75281craig cartmell
ParticipantAs Minister at The Ministry of Gentlemanly Warfare one set some junior secretaries to check this chap’s credentials.
Apparently he is a colonial who was brought up by Amish wolves in a cave, and all he had to play with was a half-eaten copy of Monopoly. He is revered by the sort of people who think their current President is doing “a great job” and that “D&D is the Devil’s gateway”.
One has tried very hard, but one cannot muster up a fuck to give on his pronouncements.
31/10/2017 at 10:01 #75284Phil Dutré
ParticipantNot to get too far off topic, but I must admit that I find the “geography of geekdom” rather interesting. If boardgaming (even excluding stuff like chess and Monopoly) is like the London Metropolitan Area, then miniature gaming is probably like Stoke-on-Trent or something.
It evolves over time. When you look at the gaming hobby as a whole, different gaming subgenres have been the most popular. Board wargaming took that role during the 60 and 70s, when roleplaying took over, which was superceded by collectible cardgames in the midnineties, which was eclipsed by board gaming as we know it now around 2000. And perhaps 5 years from now it might be something else that has not been invented yet. Miniature wargaming is something special since it requires more commitment time-wise (painting and modeling), and hence attracts a base of gamers which only partly overlaps with the bigger mainstream evolutions.
What specific gaming subgenre is the most prominent one is of course determined by commercial factors, but also by the technology of the day. E.g. CCG’s could not have been produced in the 70s, and current boardgames with their variety of components would have been difficult to produce in earleir decades – unless in mass quantities. Hence the profileration of a large number titles, each of which is produced in relátively small numbers compared to e.g. MB games in the 60s or 70s. These days, manufacturers can produce such detailed games at relatively low cost, and hence, boardgames are a popular format to publish these days.
31/10/2017 at 14:02 #75295Noel
Participant“D&D is the Devil’s gateway”
It really is, though.
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