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    Avatar photoDeleted User

    I should be ready for my first WW2 game after 4 or so years in about a fortnight.

    As I’ve indicated previously, I’ll be using our old Blitz Krieg Commander rules. This set has quite a strong & useable system of points that provides fair & balanced games.

    However, I want to try something different which may even be a little more realistic.

    The basic scenario is a simple: a German counter-attack designed to drive back/destroy a late war British force in NW Europe in 1944-1945.

    As it happens, I have quite a few more Germans than British which should work with the normal bias of attackers to defenders. But I want more.

    Given that none of us in my little group are all fired up to win a wargame, I’d also like to add some uncertainty & perhaps disparity via the dice that may end up skewing the game one way or another. I think this would add reality even if, for example, some lucky German dice may make a second Dunkirk an option. Or conversely, a weak German attack is smashed by the doughty Brits.

    This will effect the Combat Assets of the Germans.

    Thus,  for each Tiger (x2), Panther (x2), Stuka (x1), Nebelwerfer (x2) and artillery field piece (x2), the German commander throws a D6 before the game begins.

    An even number means the asset will be present for the fight. An odd number means because of lack of fuel, mechanical breakdown or perhaps earlier loss to overwhelming Allied airpower, these items will be absent. I’ve chosen these assets as they are potentially the most powerful German weapons. The German infantry, MGs & mortars, Stugs & PZivs will go in, regardless,  as per paper strength.





    Avatar photoJohn D Salt

    Mr. Picky points out that it would be pretty unusual to see Panthers and Tigers take the field together, as Panthers were equipment for one of the armoured regiments in a panzer division, and Tigers were usually in GHQ reserve units.

    To get a Stuka, in the NWE 44-45, the die-roll needed should be mre like 8 or better on an unmodified d6. Surely a Fw-190 of some kind would be much more likely in the ground attack role.

    All the best,


    Avatar photoAlan Hamilton

    Late in the war the East and West Fronts near where you are thinking of setting your game were not all that far apart.  So. though it is unlikely that a Ju-87 would appear in the West, it not impossible.  However, whether the lumbering Stuka would survive long against RAF Spitfires and Tempests or USAAF P-51 or P-47s is a moot point.  At night on the other hand the NachtSlachtGruppen operated Ju-87D bombers might be viable at low altitudes.

    1./NSGr2 and 2./NSGr2 were at Koln in late 1944

    More likely, as has already been said, would be the FW-190.

    Again Tigers were becoming rare in late 1944 as about 230-240 Tigers were deployed on the western front (France/Rhine defense) of these, about 150 Tiger 1 and King Tigers were sent to Normandy (June – Aug 1944).  Of these 60-80 were available at peak strength. However only half a dozen Tigers escaped from Normandy, and it appears that they were all destroyed/abandoned in the retreat. After that most of the 80-90 Tigers used on the western front were King Tigers, deployed during the Ardennes offensive and subsequent battles (Dec 1944 – May 1945).

    So giving them 50% availability is probably OK (maybe a bit high though).  Mixing King Tigers and Panthers fits with several SS and other Battlegroups in the closing stages of the war.  Artillery and nebelwerfers might deployed on table and diced for each time they fire with a suitably low score and they run out of ammunition.  This might create more uncertainty for the German player.




    Avatar photodeephorse

    Mr. Picky points out that it would be pretty unusual to see Panthers and Tigers take the field together, as Panthers were equipment for one of the armoured regiments in a panzer division, and Tigers were usually in GHQ reserve units. All the best, John.


    This might be a one-off, but on the night of 19 December 1944 KG Peiper had the following tanks in the village of La Gleize, 8 Panthers, 7 Panzer IVs and 7 Tiger IIs.

    Duel in the Mist vol.2

    Play is what makes life bearable - Michael Rosen

    Avatar photoAlan Hamilton

    KG Peiper started with 33 (+12 under repair) King Tigers which was about a third of the total number on the Western Front, 38 (+4 under repair) Panthers, 34 PzIV (=3 under repair) and he lost all that crossed the start line.  The remainder of the 100 or so (some sources give the total around 150 though this may include the broken down ones) were in 3 other heavy tank battalions.

    Therefore mixing King Tigers and Panthers is not unreasonable.

    Avatar photoDeleted User

    Mr. Picky points out .


    OK, I’m about to lose any credibility I have here ….though mind you, that’s probably very little.

    I’m going to use what I have. History be damned. The Stuka, for instance, is a beautiful 1/72 diecast model, costing squillions, & given to me by my son some 6 years ago. He “blew” his pocket money & savings to buy it & it’s graced my Study since then but has never been used. The Tigers….I simply like them. They are my favourite German tanks & I’ve never acquired a King Tiger because it just looks too big & wrong. There’s an historical reason for you!

    I know. I’m a sad individual. But, between Consenting Adults, some historical nonsense can surely pass muster?




    Avatar photokyoteblue

    Use what you have, I would!

    Avatar photodeephorse

    Then there is Gruppe Fehrmann,


    a mix of Panthers and Tiger Is.

    Play is what makes life bearable - Michael Rosen

    Avatar photoAlan Hamilton

    As far as I am concerned it is your game.  If you have Tigers and Stukas then use them and also the Germans used what they had. If you want a historical setting against the British move the setting to Tunisia or Italy.   Even better if you can get your son into the game.

    I play games for fun and I use what I have in my collection:

    All my PzIVs are the 1/76 Airfix PzIVF2 regardless of when the game is played, my Sdkfz 251/17 are actually Roco Minitanks SWS with 3.7cm Flak in 1/87 and I have many other adaptions (old Matchbox radio trucks etc), conversions and scratchbuilds.

    Have a look http://www.morvalearth.co.uk/Inch_High_Club/WW2_Rerb_Germ/WW2_Refurb_Germ_motorised_arty.htm



    Avatar photoDeleted User

    I certainly don’t want to be seen as critical of those with a laudable attention to historical detail. My admiration to you.

    I’m also in awe of Alan’s collection.

    However, for me, WW2 is a minor sideline. I’m not sure if I’ll ever buy another figure or vehicle for the period (never say never, though).

    I’m going to continue with the concept of desperate Nazis cobbling whatever they could find to halt the Allies (thanks, deephorse for your aricle on Fuhrman’s kampfgruppe). This ties in well with the concept of my OP in which the Germans get what the dice allows.

    The boy is now a qualified structural engineer, working in the Outback, about 12 hours driving away so a game is unlikely but I will send him a photo of his Stuka, proudly flying over the battlefield.




    Avatar photoMartinR

    There are numerous examples of Tigers and Panthers operating together in Normandy, and in many cases conducting exactly the type of operation described: trying to drive back or destroy an unfortunate late war British force.

    10th SS panzer also managed to combine Panthers, Tiger IIs and the few remaining Tiger 1s of Panzer company Hummel while defending the Island during market garden (along with Stugs and some elderly Panzer III).

    So Tiger away….

    "Mistakes in the initial deployment cannot be rectified" - Helmuth von Moltke

    Avatar photoDarkest Star Games

    My 2-bits:

    Play with what you want to play with. DAK vs Early war Russians?  Do it!  Panzer Gren vs Waffen SS?  Do it!  Canadians armor vs US Airborne?  Doooo iiiiiit!

    If you want true potential for the game to swing back and forth, just make up some cards.  Maybe one is “random Tiger breaks down” with the player dicing to see which one.  Another could be “British radios jammed” which reduces their command points for a turn.  Could have one that says “Player drawing this card has lost a leader” or something.  Some cards could be severe, some could be mild.  Players roll 1d6 each, each turn.  If the result is 6, player draws a card…  Odds are that not too many 6’s should be rolled during the game, and enough SNAFUs happen in war that any drawn should seem somewhat realistic (as long as the cards don’t have something sinsane written on them…)

    "I saw this in a cartoon once, but I'm pretty sure I can do it..."

    Avatar photoDeleted User

    @ DSG

    I’m a fan of event cards which I use in other periods. I thank you for your suggestion.



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