Home Forums WWII Requesting Help with Western Desert/North Africa

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  • #123604
    Just Jack
    Participant

    All,

    After my recent test games using Blitzkrieg Commander in 6mm, I’m hot to play some Western Desert/North Africa games.  I’ve almost finished Mersey’s book on wargaming the subject, and Featherstone’s is on the way, but I want to get an order in as soon as possible and need some help to make sure I’m getting the right stuff.

    My intent is to play from the beginning (first frontier fights between Brits and Italians) all the way up to 2nd El Alamein (not really interested in Torch and after).

    I feel like I’m okay with Germans and Italians, and British armored cars, but I’m confused about British armor.  From what I can tell, British armored formations begin with Vickers light tanks, some Cruisers (A9, A10, or A11s?), and Matilda IIs.

    -Assuming that is true, what is the proportion of each type (i.e., 45% Vickers, 35% Cruisers, and 20% Matilda IIs)?  And if it’s not true, what types should I have?

    -Any idea on the dates of the various Cruiser (A-series) tanks being upgraded and arriving in combat units (i.e., A9s until Dec 1940, A10s until June 1941, etc…)?

    -Any idea on the dates the Crusaders begin reaching the frontline units?  Did Crusaders replace the A-series Cruisers, or were they serving side by side?  What proportion of British armored forces were made up of Crusaders?

    -Same questions, except for M-3 “Honeys.”

    -Same questions, except for M-3 Lees/Grants.

    Essentially, what I’m trying to figure out is, when do the British tank ‘upgrades’ occur, and what proportionality do they occupy, so that I can build my forces out. I plan to build generic infantry and armored units, but I’d like them modelled on the overall force structures from real life, so I’d like to be able to plan something like:

    The overall British force has ten armored stands in 1940.  They are comprised of 5 Vickers units, 3 A10 Cruiser units, and 2 Matilda II units.

    In January 1941 that changes to 6 Crusader units, 2 A11 Cruiser units, and 2 Matilda units.

    In July 1941 that changes to 5 Crusader units, 1 A3 Cruiser unit, and 4 Honey units.

    In Dec 1941 that changes to 4 Crusader units, 3 Honey units, and 2 M-3 Lee/Grant units.

    I just made all that up, but that’s ultimately what I’m trying to figure out.  Also, when did the British get 6-pdr ATGs, and did they completely replace 2-pdrs, or did Commonwealth forces still keep some in action (including the 2-pdr portees)?

    Any other hints, tips, guidance, or advice on wargaming the desert war is also heartily solicited and welcomed!

    Sorry for the long post, and thanks in advance, I am grateful for any and all help.

    V/R,
    Jack

    #123644
    Whirlwind
    Participant

    From some notes I made (I have amended a certain error for Op Compass), this might be helpful:

     

    OP COMPASS DEC 1940:

    1 Tank Bde: Matilda IIs

    4 Armd Bde (7 Armd Div): Vickers Lights, A9s, A13s + a few A10s

    7 Armd Bde (7 Armd Div): Lights, A9s, other cruiser tanks?

     

    OP SONNENBLUME MAR 1941:

    3 Armd Bde (2 Armd Div): Lights, A13s, captured M13/40s

     

    OP BATTLEAXE JUN 41:

    4 Armd Bde (7 Armd Div): Matilda IIs

    7 Armd Bde (7 Armd Div): A9s, A10s, A13s, Crusaders

     

    OP CRUSADER NOV 41:

    4 Armd Bde (7 Armd Div): Honeys

    7 Armd Bde (7 Armd Div): Crusaders, some A13s

    22 Armd Bde (1 Armd Div): Crusaders

    1 Army Tank Bde: Matilda IIs, Valentines

    32 Army Tk Bde: Matilda IIs, Lights, A9s, A13s, A10x

     

    GAZALA MAY 42:

    1 Army Tank Bde: Valentines

    32 Army Tk Bde: Matilda IIs, Valentines, a few Grants

    2 Armd Bde (1 Armd Div): Crusaders

    22 Armd Bde (1 Armd Div): Grants, some Crusaders

    4 Armd Bde (7 Armd Div): Grants, some Honeys & Valentines

    1 Armd Bde: Grants, Honeys

     

    ALAM HALFA AUG 42:

    4 Armd Bde (7 Armd Div): Honeys

    22 Armd Bde (10 Armd Div): Grants, Honeys, Crusaders

    8 Armd Bde (10 Armd Div): Grants, Crusaders

    23 Armd Bde: Valentines

    10th Hussars: Crusaders

     

    2nd EL ALAMEIN OCT 42:

    2 Armd Bde (1 Armd Div): Shermans, Crusaders

    8 Armd Bde (1 Armd Div): Grants, Shermans, Crusaders

    24 Armd Bde (1 Armd Div): Shermans, Crusaders

    4 Armd Bde (7 Armd Div): Honeys, some Grants

    22 Armd Bde (7 Armd Div): Grants, Honeys, Crusaders

    23 Armd Bde: Valentines

    9 Armd Bde (2nd NZ): Crusaders, Shermans, Grants

    Warwickshire Yeomanry: Crusaders

    Extra Div Troops: Honeys

    https://hereticalgaming.blogspot.co.uk/

    #123645
    Just Jack
    Participant

    Wow, John, that is fantastic, way more detailed than anything I was expecting!  You are a true friend, of which I am prepared to take full advantage (assuming you have the information and are willing to continue to share):

    When I said I have the Italians and Germans figured out, I meant in very generic terms, nothing so detailed as what you just provided, and certainly not broken down by battle!  So, do you have the same type of equipment breakdown for the Axis forces for each of the battles you listed?  If so, could I bother you for it?

    Man, if you’ve got that and can share, I’d owe you big time (hell, I already do!)!

    Thanks again, John.

    V/R,

    Jack

    #123648
    kyoteblue
    Participant

    North Africa is so much fun with so many changes in equipment and ad hoc formations on all sides. Enjoy Jack!!!

    #123649
    madman
    Participant

    John

    That is really appreciated from the rest of us. If you do have the info for the Commonwealth and Italians that would be greatly appreciated as well. Thank you in advance and for the previous work.

    #123693
    Ruarigh
    Participant

    I’ve found the Command Decision supplement Benghazi Handicap really useful for Western Desert organisation and equipment. The tables of organisation and equipment give you a sense of what equipment was available and the scenarios also help build up the picture. I’ve seen some people use this supplement for organising BKC forces too, as on this blog.

    Never argue with an idiot. They'll only drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

    https://emidsvikings.ac.uk/
    https://roderickdale.co.uk/

    #123695

    Even by 1940, the A9 and A10 tanks were considered ineffective and obsolete.  The A13s were mostly used as the cruise tank through the first half of 1941.  The Vickers light tank were relegated to mostly scouting roles.  Through late 1941 the armored car formations were either Rolls Royce or Marmon Herrington ACs.  Those were often retrofitted with the ATRs being replaced by captured 20mm or 37mm cannon.   Crusaders did not really come in numbers until summer 1941.

    John

    "Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."

    --Abraham Lincoln

    #123696
    Whirlwind
    Participant

    So, do you have the same type of equipment breakdown for the Axis forces for each of the battles you listed? If so, could I bother you for it?

    Not exactly, but something similar.  Okay, the Germans:

    May 41:

    5th Light: PzI, PzII, PzIII, PzIV (in rough ratio 1:2:3:1; I think it would be PzIIIg and PzIVF mainly)

    21st Pz: PzII, PzIII, PzIV (in rough ratio 2:3:1)

    Nov 41:

    Both 15 Pz & 21 Pz: PzII, PzIII, PzIV (in rough ratio 2:3.5:1); 15 Pz still has a dozen PzIs until the end of 1941

    Jan 42:

    As above, except the PzIVs seem to have been pretty much eliminated in the fighting by this point

    605 PzJg has Marders (the variant with the Russian 76.2mm) & PzJgr 1

    May 42:

    Small numbers of PzIIIJ (long-barrelled 50mm arrive), a few in 15 Pz, a Coy-worth in 21 Pz.

    90th Light has some StugIIIs at this point

    July-August 1942:

    Small numbers of PzIVF-2 (long-barrelled 75mm arrive), a few in 15 Pz, a Coy-worth in 21 Pz.  Pz IIs are now slightly less common than PzIVs. A few Marders are present in both 15 Pz and 21 Pz

    Tank ratios are roughly 1 PzII: 3 PzIII: 3 PzIIIj: 1 PzIV (50:50 F to F2).  The numbers of PzIIIj and PzIVF2 slowly increase after this point.

    October – November 1942:

    15 Pz and 21 Pz both listed as having a MarderIII Bn (unsure about this).

    All the PzIIs seem to have been destroyed/abandoned during/after El Alamein.

    Does that help at all?

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 10 months ago by Whirlwind.

    https://hereticalgaming.blogspot.co.uk/

    #123698
    Andrew Rolph
    Participant

    Specifically wrt the start of Gazala I understand that there were 167 Grants available, 112 6 lbr ATGs and 19 long barrelled PzIIIjs – Gazala being the operational debut for all three. All info from a venerable old Avalon Hill game called Tobruk. Can’t remember the designer’s sources off hand. Could look them up but I’m reasonably sure they were the best available at the time and pretty reliable.

    Whirlwind – StuGs available at the same time? Not come across that before. I thought that a handful made it to Tunisia (as indicated in an earlier post) but none before then?

     

    Cheers

    Andrew

    #123699
    Whirlwind
    Participant

    So, do you have the same type of equipment breakdown for the Axis forces for each of the battles you listed? If so, could I bother you for it?

    Italians, I am much less sure of.  FWIW…:

    For Jun-Jul 40, mainly Fiat L3s (a small Bn attached to each Inf Div?), with a battalion or two of M11/39s.

    SIDI EL BARRANI DEC 40:

    9th Tank Bn (2nd Libyan Div): L3

    18th & 20th Lt Tank Bns (XXI Corps): L3

    2nd ? Tank Bn (Maletti Group): M11/39s

    1st & 3rd Tank Bns (Babini Bde): M13/40s

    21st & 60th Tank Bns (Babini Bde): L3

    SIDI REZEGH NOV 41:

    Ariete Div: 132 Armd Regt (3 Bns M13/40s); 2 Coys L3 or L6

    Pavia Div:  5th Light Tank Bn L6

    MAY 42:

    Add Littorio Div with Regt of M13/40s.  Also has Cav Regt with L6 but unsure if activated at same time, definitely there by El Alamein.

    Unclear to me if there is an additional M13/40 Bn in each Italian Corps as a Corps asset, or if taken from Armd Divs.

    AUG-OCT 42:

    Possible that other Inf Divs have Lt Tk Coys attached in addition to Pavia (i.e.  Bologna, Brescia, Savona) – L6

    Trieste Div: 1 x M13/40 Bn.

     

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 10 months ago by Whirlwind.

    https://hereticalgaming.blogspot.co.uk/

    #123704
    Whirlwind
    Participant

    Whirlwind – StuGs available at the same time? Not come across that before. I thought that a handful made it to Tunisia (as indicated in an earlier post) but none before then?

    One of the OOBs I took the notes from (in the Nafziger archive, ref 942GEMD, in turn referencing (Kriegstagbuch des Oberkommandos der Wehrmacht 1940-1945, Frankfurt-am-Main, Bernard & Graefe, 1969; Mueller-Hillebrand, B., Das Heer l933-l945, Frankfurt am mein, l956 Vol I & II, Verband der Truppen der deutschen Wehrmacht und Waffen SS l939-l945; Tessin, G., Verbänd und Truppen der deutschen Wermacht und Waffen-SS im Zweiten Weltkrieg 1939-1945, Biblo Verlag, Osnabruck, 1977; Italy, Seconda Offensiva Britannico in Africa Settentrionale; Green, J., Mare Nostrum, The War in the Mediterranean) gives 90th Light the 707 & 708 Stug batteries (6 each).  But there are definitely mistakes in some of the OOBs, so happy to hear that it is wrong.

    https://hereticalgaming.blogspot.co.uk/

    #123706
    MartinR
    Participant

    Zvb 288 Afrika had a single battery of Stugs. Not exactly hordes of them…

    "Mistakes in the initial deployment cannot be rectified" - Helmuth von Moltke

    #123707
    Whirlwind
    Participant

    Zvb 288 Afrika had a single battery of Stugs. Not exactly hordes of them…

    Yes, that was the forebearer unit of 90th Light, right?  In any event, as you say, not very many…

    BTW Jack, thinking of special units, if you want to, you are perfectly entitled to paint up any spare Brit stuff in Afrika Korps colours as part of Kampfgruppe Hecker, the German’s Brandenburger outfit in Africa:

     

    https://hereticalgaming.blogspot.co.uk/

    #123709
    John D Salt
    Participant

    From what I can tell, British armored formations begin with Vickers light tanks, some Cruisers (A9, A10, or A11s?), and Matilda IIs.

    Don’t forget we’re dealing with the British Army here, so there is a distinction between armour and tanks. Cruiser tanks live in armoured divisions; infantry tanks live in (Army) tank brigades. Thanks to the extreme weirdness of the North African theatre, Valentines (Infantry Tanks Mk III) were pressed into service, I believe with 6th armoured division, but that’s an exception.

    6 lbr ATGs

    Aaarrgh! He’s doing it deliberately to taunt Mr. Picky. 6-pdr or 6-pr, never 6-lbr.

    It’s very annoying that the Crusader didn’t first see action in Operation Crusader, but as Whirlwind points out it was in fact in Battleaxe (which was delayed for the Crusaders delivered in the Tiger convoy to make it to the front). Crusader was, however, the first time out for the Honey.

    I’m going to have to see if I can find Malcolm Bellis’ handy little booklet on British armour, which lists the main equipment of brigades.

    If you have a copy of Battlefront’s excellent PC game “Combat Mission: Afrika Korps”, the scenario designer includes availability information by month for a fantastic variety of kit that I should think is as accurate as anything. It’s also still a stonking good game in its own right.

    Somewhere, years ago, possibly in “Airfix magazine”, I seem to recall reading that only 6 short-barelled StuGs made it to North Africa, but certainly they were not numerous. Mind, the Afrika Korps itself was often not numerous when it came to running tanks.

    All the best,

    John.

    #123710
    John D Salt
    Participant

    As an aside, Mr. Picky would like to point out that there was no “A series of cruiser tanks”. A-11 was the Infantry Tank Mk I (the “comic duck” Matilda). Some of this is explained in the note below, copied from another document I wrote ages ago. It goes beyond just North Africa, but I couldn’t be bothered to cut it down. The most annoying designation ever given to any British AFV is probably the A13 Mk II Cruiser Tank Mk IV.

    I also offer, for those sad enough to be interested, a run-down of A numbers for AFVs that saw service:

    Cruiser Tank Mk I                A-9
    Cruiser Tank Mk II               A-10
    Cruiser Tank Mk III              A-13
    Cruiser Tank Mk IV               A-13 Mk II
    Cruiser Tank Mk V                A-13 Mk III Covenanter
    Cruiser Tank Mk VI               A-15 Crusader
    Cruiser Tank Mk VIII             A-27L Centaur, A-27M Cromwell
    Cruiser Tank Challenger          A-30
    Cruiser Tank Comet               A-34
    
    Infantry Tank Mk I               A-11
    Infantry Tank Mk II              A-12 Matilda
    Infantry Tank Mk III             Valentine (no A number assigned)
    Infantry Tank Mk IV              A-22 Churchill (Mks 1-VI) and A-42 Churchill (Mks VII-VIII)
    

    – – – – – – – cut here – – – – – – –

    Note on designations: British tanks were best known by a familiar name rather than a type or mark number. The ‘A’ number at the start of a designation is the General Staff specification number, and is a separate thing from the mark number. There may also be marks of a particular mark of tank, for example A15 Cruiser Mark VI Crusader II. Naming was not consistent early in the war, and names were only officially introduced in 1941, so the early light tanks and cruisers were never given names. “Matilda” was a name applied to two different infantry tanks, the later version sometimes being distinguished as “Matilda senior”. “Valentine” was reputedly so named because the design was presented to the War Office on February 14th, 1940; as it was not designed in response to a General Staff requirement, it was never allocated an ‘A’ number. The light tank “Harry Hopkins” was named after the American leader of the Lend-Lease programme. Winston Churchill remarked that the infantry tank named after him was also “a thick-skinned beast”. Thereafter a general convention was that tank names would begin with the letter ‘C’, often suggestive of cavalry dash (Crusader, Cavalier, Cromwell), SP anti-tank guns with the letter ‘A’ (Archer, Achilles, Avenger), and SP artillery otherwise have names with clerical overtones (Priest, Deacon, Bishop, Sexton). There was no naming convention for scout, light recce and armoured cars, which were usually known by their manufacturer’s name.

    Several popular nicknames were adopted semi-offically or officially. The original “Matilda” was named after a duck in a cartoon that it was supposed to resemble; for the Infantry Tank Mk II the name became official, and possibly the connection with “Waltzing Matilda” partly accounted for the popularity of the type with the Australians in New Guinea. The Stuart was often known as the “Honey”, as a result of a comment on the new tank from a highly satisfied driver. The “Priest” was reputedly so named because of the pulpit-like appearance of the 0.5″ HMG mounting. “Kangaroos” carried their passengers as a roo carries its joey, and Kangaroo-borne mechanized infantry changed the usual military verb “de-bus” to “un-pouch” when debouching from their carriers. Priest Kangaroos were also known as “unfrocked Priests”. The Sherman, notoriously, was dubbed the “Ronson”, after the well-known brand of cigarette lighter, because it “lights every time”. The experimental assault tank A33 was known as “Excelsior” after the Longfellow poem, because it was a “strange device”.

    Most AFVs historically fielded by the US in WW2 were also in British service. Exceptions are the GMC M36 Jackson, GMC M18 Hellcat, HMC M8 Scott and heavy tank T26 Pershing.

    US designation                               British designation
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Light Tank M3, M3A1, M3A3                    Stuart I, III, V
    M3, M3A1 with Guiberson diesel               Stuart II, IV
    Light Tank M5 or M5A1                        Stuart VI
    Light Tank (airborne) M22                    Locust
    Light Tank M24                               Chaffee
    Medium Tank M3 with new turret               Grant I
    Medium Tank M3A5                             Grant II
    Medium Tank M3, M3A1, M3A2, M3A3             Lee I, II, III (none supplied), IV
    Medium Tank M3A3 w/diesel engine             Lee V
    Medium Tank M3A4                             Lee VI
    Medium Tank M4, M4A1, M4A2, M4A3, M4A4       Sherman I, II, III, IV, V
    Medium Tank M4A5 (Canadian)                  Ram
    Medium Tank M4A6                             Sherman VII (few if any supplied)
    HMC M7 or M7B1                               Priest
    GMC M10 or M10A1                             Achilles I or II
    Armored Car M8                               Greyhound
    LVT 2 or 4                                   Buffalo II or IV
    
    #123730
    Darkest Star Games
    Participant

    If you have a copy of Battlefront’s excellent PC game “Combat Mission: Afrika Korps”, the scenario designer includes availability information by month for a fantastic variety of kit that I should think is as accurate as anything. It’s also still a stonking good game in its own right.

      Oh yes, that whole series is just fantastic.  Had a little difficulty back in the day with the AK game due to PC performance with the dust effect, but the game was smooth with a new PC.  I had forgotten about the info supplied.  I wish their old forum was still around, so much great info there, as well as excellent skins/camo files.  Might still have them all on the ooold PC hard drive.  If for nothing else those games were great for having scenario editors and the map maker.

    "I saw this in a cartoon once, but I'm pretty sure I can do it..."

    #123734
    vtsaogames
    Participant

    Dang, what a thread! Have to bookmark this in case I ever get around to playing the Western Desert. It will be hard enough to get the crew playing anything with machine guns and tanks first. They must have black powder unless the period is pre-gunpowder.

    This too shall pass

    #123740
    Just Jack
    Participant

    Wow, so much here, my sincere thanks to everyone!  A lot to pore over and digest, but I think I’ve got everything I need.

    I actually had ‘Benghazi Handicap,’ but sold it as I was looking for late North Africa and it was early North Africa.  Should have known that someday I’d be interested in early North Africa…

    Whirlwind John – You are a gentleman and a scholar, you are my hero, and I am eternally indebted to you 😉

    V/R,

    Jack

    #123742
    kyoteblue
    Participant

    Next to Guadalcanal North Africa is my favorite theater to play a campaign in. Tons of cool stuff.

    #123743
    Just Jack
    Participant

    That’s cool man, I didn’t know you had any stuff for North Africa.

    V/R,
    Jack

    #123744
    kyoteblue
    Participant

    Yes, I have Brits, Afrika Korp, and Italians in 15 mm desert terrain and mats.  Old FOW let me field all the oddball stuff.

    #123746
    Just Jack
    Participant

    Kyote – Damn, well how about you post some batreps then! 😉

    Couple more questions for the group:

    -Regarding “Jock Columns,” looks like they began with Operation Battleaxe, but when did Commonwealth forces stop using them?

    -I see it referenced in Mersey’s book that the Commonwealth eventually went to combined-arms formations; is it the “Jock Columns” he’s talking about, or a more formal (permanent?) means of organization? I’m guessing they are two-different things as it doesn’t appear the Jock Columns have armor, just infantry, arty, and ATGs?

    -Where are the 2-pdr portees?  And in what strength?  I.e., “they are in the AT Regiment, making up one of the batteries, while the other 2-3 batteries were towed.”

    -Could I have a Jock Column with 3 rifle stands, an arty (25-pdr) stand, and an ATG stand (all with organic motor transport)?  And then have an attached battalion of armor from the ‘Army’ tank brigade, with 3 (infantry) tank stands?  They’d be two different formations/units, but on the same battlefield.  And then maybe another three (cruiser) tank stands from a battalion of a nearby RTR?

    You guys are really amazing, thanks so much for sharing this wealth of knowledge with me, you’ve made my life so much easier, which means I can get them on the tabletop sooner and post some batreps!

    V/R,
    Jack

    #123748
    kyoteblue
    Participant

    It’s been 10 or 11 years since I did North Africa. with V 1 and V2 of FOW so I don’t have any AAR’s.  I do remember my Italians kicking the crap out of my friend Kenneth’s Indians and my own planes bombing me. FOW use to be fun.

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 10 months ago by kyoteblue.
    #123751
    Whirlwind
    Participant

    Regarding “Jock Columns,” looks like they began with Operation Battleaxe, but when did Commonwealth forces stop using them?

    AFAIK the last instance was at Mersa Matruh, but weren’t formally abandoned until Montgomery’s arrival.

    -Could I have a Jock Column with 3 rifle stands, an arty (25-pdr) stand, and an ATG stand (all with organic motor transport)? And then have an attached battalion of armor from the ‘Army’ tank brigade, with 3 (infantry) tank stands? They’d be two different formations/units, but on the same battlefield. And then maybe another three (cruiser) tank stands from a battalion of a nearby RTR?

    I suppose so, although that is perhaps too many tank formations, maybe one or the other.  Operation Fullsize had something of this nature.

    https://hereticalgaming.blogspot.co.uk/

    #123753
    Whirlwind
    Participant

    Where are the 2-pdr portees? And in what strength? I.e., “they are in the AT Regiment, making up one of the batteries, while the other 2-3 batteries were towed.

    Hopefully someone with considerably more expertise than me could take this on, but…

    AFAIK, pretty much everything was in portee by the beginning of 1941 and remained so for all of the period you are thinking about.  Infantry units were quite likely to be equipped with 25mm guns early on and I think they were en portee from very early on (their fragility was known about first).

    The SP/towed division comes back in 1943 after experience with the 6pdr showed it wasn’t as handy for portee firing as the 2pdr, but was more robust for moving about towed.

     

    https://hereticalgaming.blogspot.co.uk/

    #123765
    deephorse
    Participant

    Mare Nostrum, The War in the Mediterranean) gives 90th Light the 707 & 708 Stug batteries (6 each). But there are definitely mistakes in some of the OOBs, so happy to hear that it is wrong.

    This link

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/15_cm_sIG_33_auf_Fahrgestell_Panzerkampfwagen_II_(Sf)

    and Pier Battistelli’s book ‘Rommel’s Afrika Korps’ (Osprey Battle Orders series) say that 707 & 708 were heavy infantry gun companies equipped with the Bison, the 15cm heavy infantry gun on a PzII chassis in this case.

    This link gives Svb 288 just three StuGs

    A bit of Detail for Sonderverband 288

     

     

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 10 months ago by deephorse.

    Less enthusiasm, please. This is Britain.

    #123813
    Etranger
    Participant

    Zvb 288 Afrika had a single battery of Stugs. Not exactly hordes of them…

     

    Actually half a battery as only 3 of the 6 arrived. The others are at the bottom of the Mediterranean somewhere!

    #123814
    kyoteblue
    Participant

    I wish you lived closer Jack, I would loan you all my stuff to game with and then get it back when you are done. But I’m guessing you’re going to buy a ton of 6 mm.

    #123816
    Just Jack
    Participant

    Thanks for the info, Whirlwind-John, I appreciate it.

    Kyote-John- Hell, if it was something I was really into, I’d drive up there and get it! 😉 But North Africa just doesn’t work for me in anything larger than 6mm. So you’re absolutely right, I’ll be ordering a(nother) boatload of 6mm stuff and getting it worked up.

    I actually loaded a cart and priced it all out today, but haven’t pulled the trigger yet; the issue is that t came to $230, and I’m having a hard time convincing myself that it wouldn’t be a marital atrocity to hit ‘submit.’  I am well over my wargaming budget for the week, month, year, and decade…

    V/R,

    Jack

    #123817
    NTM
    Participant
    #123818
    kyoteblue
    Participant

    Yeah, It would likely cost 100 plus to drive up here and back.  You could just buy the early Brits and Italians for now then add the AK and later Brits. be cheaper upfront that way.

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