16/07/2017 at 15:11 #67617
Hmmm, 15 guys and every one of them died or ran away? You broke it!
Just kidding man; what you have to remember is that there are not overall ‘Force Morale’ rules, so it is possible to play to total destruction. But, in ‘normal’ fights, I’d say if you are on patrol and you take a casualty and a guy or two breaks, or maybe even just two casualties out of your seven man team, it’s probably time to head for the exits. But that’s a decision you have to make as a player. Same thing for the enemy: if you move up and quickly whack two or three bad guys, the rest are probably going to fall back (in real life).
Another thing is, if you’re having a lot of guys run off the map (6s on Shock Dice), you may need a bigger board. Also, the first 6 is only a hunker, not fall back, if he’s already in cover, and something I do (since I’m usually playing on very small tables) is don’t always make them fall straight back towards the table edge. If there is better cover in a different direction, have them fall back that way. Other than that, quit rolling so many 6s! I’d imagine that can’t last forever.
Your multi-based troops will work perfectly for 5Core Company Command.
Jack16/07/2017 at 15:17 #67618
To echo Jack, take the amount of terrain you got, then double it.
Gun battles over open sights will leave squads torn to shreds very quickly, you have to use the terrain.
The VC should be sneaks too, make sure to use the rules for hiding/keeping down.
When I run “insurgent” types, I rarely have them engage unless they are at least 1.5 to 1 in the specific part of the battle field.16/07/2017 at 16:26 #67625
The first scenario is an encounter the Marines are checking out a line of huts before moving up the road. The VC/NVA are coming down the road to do the same thing. And I rolled fire fights 3 times in a row….so while there is cover no one can use it as …well fire fights !!!!! So after the bullets fly aint nobody left….I roll a lot of 6’s
Oh and I should cheat and not have every one run !!??16/07/2017 at 16:27 #67626
Jack is a big proponent of role playing it a bit.
Make sure you read the Shock dice results carefully though, 6’s aren’t gone permanently, they usually rally back on.16/07/2017 at 19:01 #67631
“Jack is a big proponent of role playing it a bit.”
Indeed I do. What’s up man? You’ve been dodging me ever since we got kicked out 😉
John – “Oh and I should cheat and not have every one run !!??”
You’re being a bit too literal and even a bit overly dramatic, ya old fruit loop 😉
Here’s what I’m saying: there’s a bad guy behind a rock, hunkered down, 4″ from the left base edge. A couple inches above him is a building, and the building’s left-hand wall runs up and down, 1″ from the left base edge. Good guys are shooting at the bad guy from the right, and they get a ‘6’ result, which means the bad guy needs to fall back again. You could have the bad guy fall back 4″ directly to the left, carrying him off the table, OR, you could have the bad guy fall back left a couple inches and up a couple inches, so that he still falls back, but instead of going off the map straight to left (9 o’clock), he falls back behind hard cover to left/up (11 o’clock) and remains on the table.
And like Ivan said, guys that ran off the table are eligible to dice to come back on, I just never do that as I figure the coward is either still running, or has found a way to be useful away from the gunfight (helping with casualties, being a messenger, holding rear security, carrying water or ammo).
And nothing wrong with three straight fire fights (something poetic about you rolling 3 6s 😉 ), just two forces that stood toe to toe and duked it out, and if everyone died or ran off, that’s probably what should have happened after three straight firefights. A fierce fusillade, with both sides falling back to regroup and tend to casualties. But rest assured that’s not going to happen very often. Unless you’re using those dice that only have sixes on them 😉
Jack17/07/2017 at 05:08 #67655
The set up for the first game was both sides are checking out a line of huts on both sides of the road, it’s day break but with mist or patches of fog, visibility is 12 inches so that’s where I set both forces up at…they spot each other at the same time. and I rolled a 6, The cover for both sides would mean moving closer to the enemy , but I rolled that 6…so it was kinda like a gunfight in the old west…only with automatic weapons….and they died or ran away….and then I rolled another 6…and what was left died or ran away..and I rolled another 6 and they died or ran away and then nobody was left…
But next time I’ll try not to roll 6’s and just have them hunker down and not run away..
Still reading the 5 CCC rules and I’ll try them out soon.
I really was surprised at all those 6’s….. and no the dice are not all 6’s they got 126.96.36.199.5….but came up 6’s!!!18/07/2017 at 14:51 #67801
CHeers Jack. I thought your bad behaviour might rub off on me 😉
I’ve been in sci-fi land for a while, though I’m about to emerge.
Also doing some serious thinking on whether to continue with 10mm or 15mm for WW2. Part of that incidentally being your fault, you cretin.
Fundamentally, I prefer 15mm infantry but 10mm for tanks is the thing.18/07/2017 at 15:39 #67808Darkest Star GamesParticipant
That hardly seems representative of VN firefights. Not unusual for VC to run off, but the US would spend a lot of time and man power evacuating casualties, even while still fighting. KIA percentages of in-action wounded was only like 16% or something for US forces.
"I saw this in a cartoon once, but I'm pretty sure I can do it..."18/07/2017 at 15:42 #67809
Well, “out of action” isn’t just kills, it’s just out of the fight.
In a campaign, you’ll check casualties to determine how they fared.18/07/2017 at 19:56 #67836
I’ll look into that Ivan. Thanks all !!22/07/2017 at 00:41 #68080
I tried another round , it doesn’t look good for the Marines…pics on my Facebook page…22/07/2017 at 01:36 #68084
Ivan – “I thought your bad behaviour might rub off on me.”
Goes without saying, I suppose. And it’s ‘behavior’ 😉
I’m working on some WWII stuff in 15mm (partly inspired by you, you cretin), but I’m not sure what rules I’m going to use. Looking at company+, but on an 8′ x 6′ table. Can’t go wrong in either case.
Darby – As Ivan said, guys get knocked out of the fight, but that doesn’t mean they’re dead, doesn’t even mean they’re hit, just that they were no longer able to effectively engage the enemy or actively participate in useful manner during the gunfight. You roll after the game is over, from ‘traumatized’ up through ‘dramatic scar,’ various severity of wounds, permanently disabled, and finally dead, with a little less than 10% chance of KIA.
John – Another thing I’ve successfully done with guys running away on (off table) on a Shock 6 is grab a casualty on the way out. It helps with storytelling for guys you like (he was needed in the fight, but thought it was more important to pull the casualty out of the line of fire and get him back to the casualty collection point, and stay to make sure he was okay), but guys I didn’t like anyway just run away like cowards, sometimes even being summarily executed (see KG Klink)!!!
Anyway, hope you’re having fun dude. I hated them at first, but once I broke out of my old mentality and got into the groove, it’s flowing like gravy 😉
Jack22/07/2017 at 02:12 #68087
Jack, the Marine point man got hit with a 6 for shock and a 6 for kill. Yeah I know I rolled box cars…so does he run away of is knocked down ??? Take a look on my Facebook.22/07/2017 at 03:28 #68089
Kill dice take precedent so he goes down and the nearest guy within 4″ hits the dirt22/07/2017 at 03:36 #68090
And a 6 on Shock doesn’t necessarily mean he’s running. If he’s in cover he’s just hunkering down (no move or shoot, penalty in close combat). It would only be on subsequent Shock 6s that he would actually fall back.
Apparently your advanced age is affecting your reading comprehension and I need to come up there and show you how it’s done! 😉
Jack22/07/2017 at 04:11 #68092
All 4 Marines are on the road so no cover , I had them in a diamond formation , Point guy, M-60 and loader and Sargent bring up the rear. So the Kill takes president and the shock gets the next guy.
Oh and Jack any time your back in the OKC area I would love to have you show me how 5 Core plays !!!22/07/2017 at 04:45 #68093
Yeah man, you’re killing me! But it’s fun, I finally get to poke back at you #%$&ers!
Why are all your guys on the road? You don’t use fireteam wedge on a road! Why is there a Sergeant and a machine gunner? Corporals run fireteams, and MGs don’t get pushed down to fireteam or squad level, just platoon! Where are the mortars??? You need mortars! And cowboy boots!
Man, this is great! And this why you and Rod don’t push batreps! 😉
Anyway, sorry, back on point: I understand your comment about the fight looking like the Wild West now, that’s how you’re setting it up! Stop starting with all your guys in the open and in sight of each other. Starting the fight with the forces one move out of LOS is pretty good advice, and just dice off to see which side goes first.
Keep in mind that react fire is either only using Shock dice (Guard) or Kill dice (Snap), not both. And the forced fall back on a Shock 6 isn’t that far (4 or 6″, don’t recall off the top of my head). It looked like you had plenty of room for your guys to fall back without running off the table; your guys should never run off the table from the first Shock 6 they receive.
And as we discussed before, you need a lot more cover, trees, walls, bushes, and hooches to break up LOS so you can maneuver.
And I’ll actually be in OKC in a couple weeks, probably two nights, but I’m not sure how much time I’ll have.
Jack22/07/2017 at 05:36 #68100
It’s dawn Feb 1st 1968 the First platoon of H Company is pushing up Route 1 from Phu Bai toward Hue, first fire team of the platoon is in the lead, there is a fog that limits visibility to 12 inches in game scale. Pvt Miles Kellogg is on point, Pvt Steven Barton has the M-60 and Pvt Felipe Cruz is a loader for the M-60, Sgt, Bill Compton is bring up the rear. The rest of the platoon is about 100 feet behind them , hidden in the fog. They spot 4 VC coming south on the road, I rolled to see who went first and the VC got first turn… so that’s the set up….
Dude if you have time I would love to have you teach me…22/07/2017 at 05:56 #68101
Oh and the 60mm mortars are back with the weapons platoon……22/07/2017 at 07:21 #68102Shaun TraversParticipant
In 5MiN, a 6 on the shock die means they retreat 12″ and hunker down. FiveCore skirmish and 5MaK do not have the same result. It could be why John is having soldiers run off the table so much. John, maybe change the 6 result to the FiveCore skirmish result: retreat 6″ and if still not in cover, keep retreating until in cover or 6″, whatever comes first. And because everyone has to house rules stuff, I actually play with this 6 shock die result that is a mash up of various 6 shock die results: If in cover, do not retreat unless known enemy within 12″and not already hunkered down; otherwise retreat 6″ or up to 12″ to reach cover. Note this means that you only retreat if not in cover, or in cover and enemy within 12 and you are already in bad shape!22/07/2017 at 14:12 #68133
John – Cool set up, but like I said, I’d start with the two sides out of LOS, then roll to see who goes first, and that side actually has to move someone out into the open (as if they are unaware the bad guys are out there), then the fight starts. I’ll see if I have time to link up with you, I’ll let you know as we get closer to the date. And just bustin’ your chops about the tactics/organization/mortars 😉
Shaun – Yes Sir, you’re correct, though I will point out it also says:
“If a bailing figure moves within 3” of a table edge, roll the Shock die again immediately. On another Bail result, the figure flees the battle area. On a Flinch result, if the figure is not in cover, it likewise flees the battle area. If in cover on a 1, or rolling a 25, the figure recovers to a normal state.”
So the guys shouldn’t be running straight off the table on their first 6 Shock result. I looked, and my 6″ distances were from 5Core Company Command and 5 Men at Kursk, and 5MAK has the results a little different (pinned/hunkered), which is how I play.
Jack22/07/2017 at 17:00 #68141
Also bear in mind that while it’s not exact, the intention was always that in 15mm and below, the ground scale is not that far from the miniatures scale.
Kind of anyways (have to say that before someone starts moaning about grenade throwing range being wonky or something).
So if your guys look like they’re 20 yards apart, they’re basically point blank.22/07/2017 at 17:22 #68142
Thanks guys !!! I am trying to get my head around combat , and how it works, movement is next.23/07/2017 at 22:59 #68235
I took a break from the fight to show off my FOW / Tour of Duty BF figures , Hey Jack, there are my mortars and tanks !!! On my Facebook page.23/07/2017 at 23:02 #68236Victoria DicksonParticipant
Where are the helicopters?
Seriously though, nice force and no shortage of mortars. 🙂23/07/2017 at 23:11 #68237
Oops… I don’t have the right Helicopters for the Marines in 1968, and my Huey’s are kinda torn up…04/08/2017 at 23:12 #69258
Photos of my NVA and VC on my Facebook page. Lots and lots of them.04/08/2017 at 23:27 #69260
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