Yes, it is broken

[OotKust]

Brexit, or politicians, have a lot to answer for.
And what has been lost in the colonies- TRUST!

Yes, as well as the publication world changes and effects of everything that has subsumed business in general in the last 3-4 years, it’s now affecting business ethics.

Games components suppliers advertise discounts- but don’t give them.
Publishers advertise ‘rates’- yet have no compunction to complete a failed transaction.

In the first case, I am not alone over here in failed reduction in pricing by model sellers. They do not use ‘commerce’ sites as they should, to discount and apply proper redictions, no you have to wait till they get a round tuit . In one instance it took 75 days after (two) transaction dates for cumulative refunds to finally be paid back.

In the same situation, a friend and I combined resources to obtain said discounts, nearly two years later he has been ghosted by the culprits!

In one this year my order for over £110 of books never arrived. Any other orders from various sources arrive in two- three weeks. This one, 4 months have elapsed, and I too have been ghosted by the seller. Despite paying more for freight, it wasn’t ‘Tracked’ is the excuse.

Neither were many of the dozen or so orders in the last 5 years, including Covid times, tracked thus. Add 50% or double the cost of new books as freight, and you see why.
Previously, say 2019 or so, a lost/damaged order receipt was replaced with new product. Not so any longer…

So between 4 of us, it appears that £2000+ per anum is likely not flowing to the UK businesses. And in addition- they do not deduct VAT that is not applicable to overseas sales? SO who is pocketing that diference, because I don’t see these non-insignificant businesses operating at a hundred thousand pounds turnover  p.a. NOT employing tax minimisation (or dodging) practices.

I’ll note the exception of Perrys- whose web site efficiently and quickly provides us with a VAT reduced cost, seems to apply scaled ‘freight’ ratios, and who are quick and efficient with order and automation. And if you ask a question, get an answer within a day…

So beware- if they are doing it to us, they will eventually do it to you as well. Money scraping, ghosting enquiries/ demands- yes it came to that, etc. has resulted in zero repeat orders.

After 55 years in the hobby, even the postal age of letter orders and tiny packet receipts, was never this bad.

-dave

[Mike]

Frustrating, though the political aspect is not relevant here.
🙂

For the VAT, are the companies in question charging it in the first instance?

[Tony Hughes]

Losses to ‘missing’ items have definitely increased in the last few years and that seems to be due to underfunding of postal services worldwide. Sorry if you think of that as ‘political’ but it is true nonetheless.

Books don’t carry VAT so don’t expect a discount on those.

With no named companies it is difficult to know whether they would be collecting VAT.

 

[Mike]

Tony Hughes wrote:

Losses to ‘missing’ items have definitely increased in the last few years and that seems to be due to underfunding of postal services worldwide. Sorry if you think of that as ‘political’ but it is true nonetheless.

I was referring to the Brexit reference.
Just because something is true, that does not make it appropriate content for TWW.
An aura of calm is preferred on these shores and that means keeping politics, current affairs etc well out to sea.

🙂

[Not Connard Sage]

Well I’m waiting for a parcel from Poland that had an expected delivery of last Monday to Wednesday.

Royal Mail tracking hasn’t changed from ‘leaving Poland’ last Saturday, and I can’t put a claim in until 20 days have passed…

Obvious contrarian and passive aggressive old prat, who is taken far too seriously by some and not seriously enough by others.

[Tony Hughes]

I don’t find international tracking particularly reliable. There have been times when the advice of delivery came a week after it was delivered and others a week BEFORE it was delivered.

The best I had was about 8 years ago from UK to USA. A package of painted figures that was going to upstate NY. According to the tracking it flew into NY and then to Portland and then California before returning to NY and getting delivered safely – it took just over a month. When the customer got the package he found that it had been in NY customs the whole time as it was date stamped in and out.

 

[Ivan Sorensen]

I havent had any real bad experiences in the minis world. Mostly just small shops that take a long time to ship.
Now retro computing scene: Defective products, people who suddenly become unreachable once you report a problem even though they are still shilling their product on forums, it’s been a lot.

[MartinR]

I’ve had a couple of items go missing in the last 12 months and neither supplier responded to requests for a refund (the Royal Mail tracking was utterly useless). But that is why I buy stuff using a credit card, I just got refunds from my card company instead. Distance Selling legislation and all that.

"Mistakes in the initial deployment cannot be rectified" - Helmuth von Moltke

[greg954]

It makes you wonder where all these missing items end up. I too haven’t really had any bad experiences when ordering minis. Guess I’m kind of lucky, as buying the minis we want means ordering online. There’s a GW in my home town and probably the odd little games shop dotted about. But that’s about all. I think shipping is getting worse and worse. When I started wargaming, Pirates of the Spanish Maine back in 2007 I was ordering online left, right and centre. I ordered some deck cards from the US; US to UK in three days and not one missing item out of dozens of orders.

Now I think the post is tenuous at best. I order only from the UK and like Martin only use a credit card. You can clock up a hundred quid quite easy on a small order.

[Mike]

I can only think of 1 instance where I had anything not turn up here, and in the 15 years of selling stuff mostly using Royal Mail, only had 2 people contact me to say something had not arrived.
On both instances I got refunds from Royal Mail and re-sent the goods, not in that order.

[willz]

I have only had one item go missing from an order from Germany several years ago, however the seller has not sent it tracked (still got my money back best thing about paypal).

I do not buy or sell anything from outside the UK any more as I can’t work out what custom charges, VAT or extra postage costs?  It’s all too complicated for me to be bothered and I am not disappointed.  In the UK I have not had any problems with postage or delivery, normally arriving within 3 – 5 days, a week rarely.

[OotKust]

Yes willz it is complicated.
But I dont see that any out of country charges are a sellers concern. Perhaps we’re inured to it, as we’re the far flung colony that never pays less than anyone else for freight/Postage, and have all my life time. Thus our GST/VAT and import taxes have always been there.

Of course being part canny Scot, I fly under the limits nearly always.

Since 2019 I’ve not, and will not, use any US source or purchase. No eb**, Amazunt, and PP only with reluctance given their usurous charges.

I’ve not tried my cc company, but if the seller is not to blame (ie Post) then do you still get compensated? I’d think not, and I know I’d expect reprisals from the seller because he’s already ghosted me on this.

The lead mountain is largely terminal now- enough to complete all known/ developed projects; enough spares to make those customisations I can’t let go…

-d

[AdmiralHawke]

I think the Royal Mail in the UK is struggling to maintain reliability these days.

Not Connard Sage wrote:

Well I’m waiting for a parcel from Poland that had an expected delivery of last Monday to Wednesday. Royal Mail tracking hasn’t changed from ‘leaving Poland’ last Saturday, and I can’t put a claim in until 20 days have passed…

I had a similar thing with a parcel from Poland a couple of weekends ago, which was particularly annoying as I waited in to sign for the package for half of the Saturday only for the parcel not to arrive. It came a week later. I’m fairly sure that was down to Royal Mail though, not the seller in Poland, as other post was delayed too.

To my great surprise, at the beginning of May I received two pots of paint that had been posted in December 2022 or January 2023, a full 15 months after they were posted to me. I have no idea where they were in the intervening time: presumably either in the bottom of a Royal Mail van or just possibly in a neighbour’s house. I never doubted that the seller had posted them, and the amount involved was inconsequential.

[Not Connard Sage]

Hataka, Admiral?

Obvious contrarian and passive aggressive old prat, who is taken far too seriously by some and not seriously enough by others.

[Sane Max]

This all seems to miss the point. Sure, thirty years ago I could send a Postal Order to a nice beardy man in Northampton and receive a lovely heavy crinkly packet of toy soldiers a few weeks later – would I have been willing to do the same to a nice Beardy Man in Poland, or Germany and expect to get my stuff? No, of course not.

A lot of these are just the symptoms of a system that allows people to buy a cheap Black Nightie from China and get it a few days later (Hey, don’t judge me). Expectations are raised.

I am always very impressed when I receive what I asked for last week. I have had one package go ‘missing’ in transit ever and that turned up a year later (delivered to students a street away) and in the meantime the supplier has sent me the order again for free.

[Mike Headden]

I’m with Sane Max on this.

Having become enthused by Gangs of Rome 2 recently I have been busy getting figures, buildings and accessories from a variety of sources.

That variety consisted of purchases from the UK, Italy, Spain, Poland and China.

All items arrived promptly and intact.

There are 100 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who can work from incomplete data

[Not Connard Sage]

Sane Max wrote:

This all seems to miss the point. Sure, thirty years ago I could send a Postal Order to a nice beardy man in Northampton and receive a lovely heavy crinkly packet of toy soldiers a few weeks later – would I have been willing to do the same to a nice Beardy Man in Poland, or Germany and expect to get my stuff? No, of course not. A lot of these are just the symptoms of a system that allows people to buy a cheap Black Nightie from China and get it a few days later (Hey, don’t judge me). Expectations are raised. I am always very impressed when I receive what I asked for last week. I have had one package go ‘missing’ in transit ever and that turned up a year later (delivered to students a street away) and in the meantime the supplier has sent me the order again for free.

 

.< That’s the point. You missed it.

Back in the good old days you sent off your cheque/postal order in the full hope and expectation that your stuff would turn up, eventually.
Which was fair enough. Then. The admonition that you should give it 28 days for delivery, and the fact they had to clear the cheque indicated that it wasn’t going to turn up tomorrow*. Contact with the seller advising where your toys are? Good grief man…

Scroll right 30 or 40 years. The INTERNET. Cash is transferred instantly. The supplier provides tracking numbers so that you can follow your package as it…disappears. You will receive a delivery date, which you might expect to be somewhat accurate.

Royal Mail told me my paints were leaving Poland at 0515 18th May. According to Royal Mail, they’re still leaving Poland 10 days later. Royal Mail obligingly inform me that I can’t open a claim/investigation until 20 days after the buggering parcel was supposed to have landed on the mat chez NCS. Considering the feckin’ thing was allegedly going to turn up around last Wednesday, it’ll be June 13th before they deign to even look for it, let alone provide a bullshit excuse as to why it’s in bloody limbo, and not sitting on my desk where it is being used to decorate my 1/3000 warships.

Now, if you’ll excuse me, I’m going to kick the cat and chew a carpet.

*In the early 1980s I ordered some gladiators from Minifigs a couple of days before Christmas fully expecting them to arrive in the New Year. They dropped through the letterbox the day after Boxing Day. It was spooky.

Obvious contrarian and passive aggressive old prat, who is taken far too seriously by some and not seriously enough by others.

[Not Connard Sage]

Another anecdote:

I ordered a 1TB external SSD on Sunday.

Yesterday a 500GB SSD arrived.

Full of venom, I checked the email. I had ordered a 500GB SSD

To the website, click ‘return order’. Give reason for return ‘because I’m a pillock’.

Here’s a QR code said the helpful bot, take it to the post office with the SSD and get it scanned. No need to parcel it back up, pay postage or even print a returns label.

This morning I did just that. Half an hour later I got an email saying I’d been refunded. I checked my credit card at 1400, refund shows on balance.

Amazon.

Obvious contrarian and passive aggressive old prat, who is taken far too seriously by some and not seriously enough by others.

[Not Connard Sage]

Blimey, reckon they’ve been following this thread? 😀

Obvious contrarian and passive aggressive old prat, who is taken far too seriously by some and not seriously enough by others.

[Benjamin Cato]

I have had fairly positive postal experiences.

Although one Pendraken order Royal Mail decided was dangerous and sent by ship that took 12 months. (Leon at Pendraken had replaced it 10 months earlier when I advised him it had not arrived) The first fleet only took eight months to get from Portsmouth to Sydney 😂

I have lost 2 deliveries from China, but am not sure if that is their issue or from Australia Post, as I have had two misdirected deliveries received at my address that I have redelivered locally and have also received at least one that I know of.

I don’t think we realise exactly the scale of the postal packages system now. The increase in the number of packages sent is enormous – hence why Amazon have their own delivery services. I know from the public information available that for Australia Post the letter delivery service runs at a loss while the package delivery service makes a lot of money. The opposite of what happened in our glory years of the 70s to the 90s 😁

From an Australian perspective I think we are well served by the international postal/delivery systems. I know that packages can get lost, and small heavy packages (like ones containing lots of toy soldiers) are prone to sinking to the bottom of piles of deliveries and be delayed.

I admit that I only order from a small circle of suppliers so do not have the experience of others. But maybe we get a bit blasé about it as Amazon will often deliver in the morning what you ordered the prior evening.

 

[Norm S]

I live in the UK and do a lot of boardgaming. Boardgames are predominantly American product. So, I have two choices;

Buy direct from overseas or buy from a UK importer. I tend towards the latter as it supports a UK hobby shop and takes some hassle out for me.

However, sometimes I have had to do the overseas thing and it is true, postal charges, plus import customs duty can seem close to the cost of the item purchased ….. but, you know what, it is what it is!

I don’t look at the postage, I look at the combined price and decide, ‘do I want the game enough to pay that price’ and often the answer is yes.

There is of course a natural assumption that all postal costs are a rip-off, not so. recently I ordered an 18 dollar game from the states and was charged 16 dollars postage. For that, I got tracking, the parcel moved to 7 different destinations with the US, then via aircraft came to the UK, then went through 3 internal hubs before good old postie delivered it to my door – bargain, I can’t even get on the train (as a couple) and visit my local city for less than 16 Dollars (equivalent).

On the flip side, i did pay £110 for a game from the U.S. that had sold out everywhere else, but before selling out was available to £27 plus postage, but I really wanted that game and to fill my collection, it was worth £110 … to me.

Most of us moan about postage costs, but do so without the slightest insight into operator costs, that is just an observation, not a criticism.

My biggest problem on the postal service is that I am increasing receiving letter and parcels that have tears in the packaging, on a scale that is suggesting that somewhere along the process, there are some people trying to take a peak into the parcel / letter (especially Christmas cards) …. Unless the process is all of a sudden creating more damaged packages than ever before (with blades), thus, as a customer, I m far more concerned about the security of my parcel than the cost of its delivery.

[OotKust]

OotKust wrote:

And what has been lost in the colonies- TRUST! Yes, as well as the publication world changes and effects of everything that has subsumed business in general in the last 3-4 years, it’s now affecting business ethics.

And empathy. Given the old ‘direct-marketing ratio’ of 1-2% success to a campaign, the same is the rate of complaints about something.

Many businesses ‘factor-in’ such costs to themselves so they can leverage and look cute by solving a dismal outcome for a client before the dreaded rot of debasement and abuse sets in. Probably even moreso today with social outrage prevalent and instant.

And yes I know because I was part of a $$Bn billings a month wholesale trade service team- it isn’t worth anyones time dissecting complaints over a few dollars worth.

So I agree Norm that whilst it may be necessary to purchase offshore, we balance our needs. I didn’t buy a military book in two decades as my gaming fell on the backburner and I considered my research done.

But when I awoke I found a new field of information had opened up (apart from the ‘net) and some fine works I was compelled to purchase were not the cheapest. So I made strategic buys and paid the acceptable cost, like you.

When charged ‘extra’ for a service, without specifics, regardless of the failed attempt, good will, would be appropriate. A long standing customer with considerable ongoing purchase history even more so. Seems my value as a client is no longer respected. And it’s not as if there was a regular barf-fest of complaining, but I could…

Now I won’t be surprised if said items turn up from a dog-eared ship sometime within 6 months, or perhaps all was lost in the thousands of containers that hurl overboard at sea in the long-winded interests of shipping companies that have no care for the property they call cargo.

As to packet damage otherwise, I’ve seen very little. Yes the odd crushed corner of a box, the bent in corner book due to inadequate protection  (Paul Meekins systems are great!) but nothing more major in 5 years- except total loss.

Others got wet books, some crushed plastic soldier packets (again complete lack of stiffening or padding) etc. Those got compensated for…

I’ve also been a tradie, worked in premises from harlot-shops to Governor-Generals mansion and everything in between. Inside factories (naval dockyard) to postal sorting centres and cute medical offices.

So yes you get the sharp edges, equipment malfunctions, falling off belts and tracks/ rollers etc. along with unreliable LCD common thieves and opportunists among us.

~d

[Not Connard Sage]

Methinks the record is also broken.

Obvious contrarian and passive aggressive old prat, who is taken far too seriously by some and not seriously enough by others.

[Author]

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