The battle or campaign you always wanted to do?

[Ivan Sorensen]

What is the WW2 battle, operation, campaign, whatever that you always have wanted to do on the table, but have not gotten around to yet?

Is there one that “got away” or do you have a future project in mind?

For me, it is increasingly shaping up to be Norway though I do plan to remedy that this year.

[Whirlwind]

Do you mean ‘Norway’ considered as a specific, stand-alone campaign (that one might get in a detailed boardgame or computer game), or ‘Norway’ as a backdrop to individual tactical games; or the latter, but combined in some simple campaign format?

[Ivan Sorensen]

Really just getting some Norwegian troops painted up and digging into the campaign a bit more to play some tactical scenarios. I’m reading my way through the official British history right now.

Though doing a theme would be cool, since you can do commando raids, resistance etc.

[Don Glewwe]

For a half-dozen years or so my interest keeps circling back to something involving ‘Task Force Butler’ following Operation Dragoon in August ’44.  The ad hoc battlegroup was involved in combat (as an ‘official’ unit) for only two weeks, iirc, but saw action that could (I think) generate both interesting scenarios as well as some sort of campaign set over the course of those two weeks.

[Aethelflaeda was framed]

ImagiNations Strategic level WW2 with fog of war, espionage and economic factors.

Mick Hayman
Margate and New Orleans

[Steve Johnson]

Poland ’39, France 1940, Operation Barbarossa and Operation Market-Garden. I’ve done bits of some of them, but not to the level I would wish for. Real life always gets in the way…

[Whirlwind]

There is pretty much no battle or campaign in WW2 that does not fit into that category for me…I guess the Desert War is the most obvious one for me though, really interested in it, not sure I have ever played a single game of it! And that is really stupid, since I have forces for it, at least 15mm skirmish anyway.

[John D Salt]

Operation Meridian, the British Pacific Fleet’s strike on the oil refineries at Palembang and Pladjoe in 1945. The biggest strikes ever flown off by the Fleet Air Arm, which knocked out a quarter of Imperial Japan’s aviation spirit production. Corsairs, Hellcats, Fireflies and Avengers doing the attacking, against Oscars, Tojos and Nicks intercepting, with CAP from Seafires fending off kamikazes. I have accumulated a mass of research material from the National Archive, and I have the best possible name for the game, “Palembang Ramrod”. All it needs now is for me to have the stroke of genius required to produce an interesting game on multi-squadron air operations, something I have not really seen elesewhere. It is surprisingly hard to find any information on fighter tactics at the wing level, the specifics of hangar and deck handling for WW2 carriers, and the way radio frequencies were allocated to control formations in the air.

All the best,

John.

[Shaun Travers]

Like Whirlwind, something in the desert in ww2.  I actually now have some figures for them (got them from a friend a few years ago) but still need some painting.  And I don’t like painting.  I think I have done one ww2 desert based game and that was about 30 years ago with someone elses figures.

[Tony S]

Forgive me for a minor initial thread hijack with reference to John’s potential “Palembang Ramrod” but if you’re not aware already of the new Fireball Forward air rules John, they are designed for large air actions, battles with 5-6 squadrons a side.  I cannot vouch for them, since I haven’t read them, but they do seem rather unique and interesting.</p>
https://www.wargamevault.com/m/product/475095

And as for Ivan’s original query – I’ve always been interested in the Burma theatre.  I know Peter Pig have a lovely 14th Army range, and hopefully someday I’ll actually have some, and painted so they I can use them!  To be honest, the impending Chain of Command Far East supplement may be just the ticket to get me moving on it.

(Although I must admit there seem to be a few potential projects in front of that, already present in my lead mountain).

[Mike Headden]

Double post, sorry.

There are 100 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who can work from incomplete data

[Mike Headden]

Mike Headden wrote:

John D Salt wrote:

It is surprisingly hard to find any information on fighter tactics at the wing level, the specifics of hangar and deck handling for WW2 carriers, and the way radio frequencies were allocated to control formations in the air.

“How Carriers Fought” written by Lars Celander and published by Casemate covers pretty much everything you might want to know about carriers in WW2.

 

Covering British, American and Japanese doctrine, practice and hardware with an emphasis on the Pacific War – because that’s where the carrier action largely was.

 

Covers all sorts from arming, fuelling, launching and recovering aircraft, through the pros and cons of armoured flight decks, recovery (or not) of ditched pilots, to navigation (or lack of it) over a featureless ocean and much, much more.

 

Considering the coverage I found it surprisingly readable.

There are 100 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who can work from incomplete data

[Mike Headden]

For me it would be a multiplayer campaign based on Caesar’s Gallic Wars or one based on the First Crusade with various Arab and Crusader factions and the Byzantines each represented by a player.

 

I am currently working excruciatingly slowly through building 2mm scale Roman and Gallic forces for a mini campaign involving the intervention (by that “lost to history” Roman General Pompous Magnus no relation to the better known Pompeius Magnus) in the civil war between Ouitabix and his usurping brother Eautibix of the Cereales tribe of Southern Gaul.

 

There are 100 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who can work from incomplete data

[MartinR]

For me at the moment, the later desert battles (Gazala, Alamein), although I’ve been busily painting stuff up.  The last time I really  did anything to do with Gazala, it was with AHGCs Tobruk back in the 1970s, although I did run one operational game of the whole battle around 20 years ago.

 

"Mistakes in the initial deployment cannot be rectified" - Helmuth von Moltke

[Who Asked This Joker]

Like Whirlwind, Shaun Travers and MartinR, Desert war.  For me, early desert.  I like the idea of the crappy inter-war tanks still existing on the battlefield.  Honorable mention to France 1940.  That would be a very interesting campaign, especially with “what-if” scenarios.

John

"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."

--Abraham Lincoln

[vtsaogames]

I have WWII East Front, so anything set there would be fine. The open steppe combat that surrounded 6th Army in Stalingrad? I know urban combat has lots of fans. I prefer open field fights and dread making up all those ruined buildings.

It's never too late to have a happy childhood

[shelldrake]

I have always wanted to do WW2 desert war, and have actually made a start to doing so this last week: I have some Warlord Games 8th Army and Commonwealth, and ordered some Warlord Games Italians, all for a game using the “Five men at Kursk” rules.

A car crash this week will put a bit of a halt to spending more on this project, but that might let me focus on some terrain making.

[hammurabi70]

vtsaogames wrote:

I have WWII East Front, so anything set there would be fine. The open steppe combat that surrounded 6th Army in Stalingrad? I know urban combat gas lots of fans. I prefer open field fights and dread making up all those ruined buildings.

In order to do something a bit different a friend, now sadly deceased, decided on doing the Rumanian Army on the Eastfront.  I have done Italian and another friends has done Pz38(t)s for the Germans rather than the ubiquitous PzIIIs.  It is good to do something a bit different!

We have a preference for earlier periods in WWII when manoeuvre on the battlefield is more readily achievable than later ones, as it gets rather tiresome to be taking shots at targets on the far horizon, or would be if a few feet on the table can be perceived as that.

www.olivercromwell.org; www.battlefieldstrust.com
6mm wargames group: [email protected]; 2mm wargames group: [email protected]

[AdmiralHawke]

• Battle of the Coral Sea
• Battle of Midway
• Battle of Matapan
• First and Second Battles of Narvik

John D Salt wrote:

Operation Meridian, the British Pacific Fleet’s strike on the oil refineries at Palembang and Pladjoe in 1945.

Love this idea. That would be an awesome game.

shelldrake wrote:

A car crash this week will put a bit of a halt to spending more on this project, but that might let me focus on some terrain making.

Bad luck. I hope no one was hurt.

[vtsaogames]

shelldrake wrote:

A car crash this week will put a bit of a halt to spending more on this project, but that might let me focus on some terrain making.

 

Ouch! Hope the damage was to the vehicle and not to you or any others.

It's never too late to have a happy childhood

[vtsaogames]

AdmiralHawke wrote:

• Battle of the Coral Sea
• Battle of Midway
• Battle of Matapan
• First and Second Battles of Narvik.

Recently read Ian Toll’s first two books about the Pacific War. Made me realize how the old Avalon Hill Midway game gave too much control to the players, and how much chance played in the carrier battles.

It's never too late to have a happy childhood

[John D Salt]

Tony S wrote:

Forgive me for a minor initial thread hijack with reference to John’s potential “Palembang Ramrod” but if you’re not aware already of the new Fireball Forward air rules John, they are designed for large air actions, battles with 5-6 squadrons a side. I cannot vouch for them, since I haven’t read them, but they do seem rather unique and interesting.

https://www.wargamevault.com/m/product/475095

Thanks for that. I’m not much of a fan of videos instead of writing, but this one is an agreeable watch, and the participants are clearly having a high old time.

The thing that fails to convince me about using the kind if randomised activation sequences many rules seem to use these days is that, in the air and at sea, things are moving the whole time. I am now thinking along the lines of having perhaps a PIP-like activation roll for each side, with the proviso that anyone not controlled by the player carries on doing what they are doing at their standard cruise speed. It seems to me that aircraft will either be en route from one place to another, or else orbiting an established racetrack, say on CAP or forming up round the carrier.

I like the idea of having the action follow the bomber formation, with intercepting formations nosing in at intervals from somewhat-unpredictable directions. One of the puzzles I have to make “Palembang Ramrod” into a game is how to give the Japanese a chance when their main type, the Oscar, has such utterly wretched armament, but it would be a victory of sorts if an intercepting formation managed to distract a portion of the escort and pull it away from the bombers, tempting into the “uncontrolled advance” beloved of WRG Ancients reaction tests. This seems to reflect an aspect of the real operation, where Corsair pilots were commended for obeying the command “Droppit!” rather than chasing Oscars for kills.

Mike Headden wrote:

“How Carriers Fought” written by Lars Celander and published by Casemate covers pretty much everything you might want to know about carriers in WW2.

It’s certainly the best thing I’ve seen on the subject, but it still doesn’t give me the crunchy numbers I want on times for different servicing tasks below decks, how to manage movements in a hangar, and how long it should take to range a strike. Similarly I don’t really have any clear idea of how fighter direction was conducted, and how R/T was used. Did CAP in 1945 call “Judy” the way a modern GCI would, or was this a post-WW2 thing?

All the best,

John.

[kyoteblue]

Guadalcanal sea air and land.

[Robert Dunlop]

Not WW2 but we got to reproduce the First Battle of the Marne on the 100th Anniversary in the same region in France. This was the pivotal battle in September 1914 that broke the German advance into France.

The details of the project can be found here: link

This is the overhead photo of the final setup in the Dormans’ chapel, with the tables representing more than 50km of battlefield:

The terrain was accurately reproduced, based on original maps and supported by the use of Hexon terrain pieces for 20 metre contour levels.

There were more than 10,000 6mm figures deployed. This is a photo of Irregular Miniatures French (from left) and German cavalry about to face off near the town of Courgivaux:

The public response was amazing. Hundreds of people visited to view the spectacle, including the grandson of a British cavalry officer who took part in the battle. He was in his 80s and was thrilled to be shown where his grandfather had been.

Robert

[Rod Robertson]

Ivan:

My first choice would be to play a campaign featuring a selection of serialised tactical games from the Eastern Front from June 1941 until the end of Operation Bagration. These games would be reinforced company strength battles for the attacking side in 15mm and battalion or regimental level games in 6mm depending on the situational need. 15mm battles might very well be deeper dives into parts of the larger scale 6mm battles. The campaign would be based on books from many sources but David Glantz and Robert Forczyk in particular. This campaign would be a as accurate as possible but would also be a creative bath-tubbing regression extravaganza.

I have got about 50 of the scenarios picked out and written up in rough draft form for the 15mm games but I lack the right early East Front kit and infantry for the Soviets in 6mm as well as some kit for the Germans and axis minor allies. So there will be considerable expense and painting to be done in order to ever realise this two scale campaign. I have played through some of the 15mm battles with friends in the past but moving to a new town which seems to have very few historical wargamers and Covid-19 complications have made the last five years a bit of a gaming drought period.

My second choice would be a campaign to follow the Canadian forces in Sicily and Italy up the peninsula from 1943 until 1945. This would be based heavily on the the excellent series of books written by Mark Zuehlke. More bath-tubbing I’m afraid.

I did a pair of these serialised campaigns similar in style but smaller in scope than  the two mentioned above in the past. One was set in Normandy and the latter was set in Holland, (the Scheldt and Wallchren Island) which was great fun following Canadian forces. Hedgerows, open fields bereft of cover, fortified villages and farms, canals, forests, polders, flooded fields, mud, bogging and abject misery made for some great games. Am I sick? Perhaps, but we all enjoyed the games nonetheless. These two past campaigns were based on many sources including the very useful series of five books called The Maple Leaf Route by Terry Copp and Robert Vogel (the latter being an excellent professor of mine at McGill University in the late 1970s and early 1980s).

Well I’ve blathered on enough. Good thread this! Thanks.

Cheers and good gaming.

Rod Robertson.

 

[AdmiralHawke]

Tony S wrote:

Forgive me for a minor initial thread hijack with reference to John’s potential “Palembang Ramrod”

I think we need a Palembang or British carrier operations topic because John keeps posing such interesting questions. 🙂
I was very tempted to hijack again.

Robert Dunlop wrote:

Not WW2 but we got to reproduce the First Battle of the Marne on the 100th Anniversary in the same region in France.

Wow. Love it.

[Tony S]

The Maple Leaf Route by Terry Copp and Robert Vogel (the latter being an excellent professor of mine at McGill University in the late 1970s and early 1980s).

Ha!  Terry Copp was my history Prof!  Great, engaging speaker and writer.

[Rod Robertson]

Tony S.

Well, it’s a very big, small world, innit!

Cheers and good gaming.

Rod Robertson.

[willz]

Operation Sealion, done it several times.  Always with different results.

[Rod Robertson]

Tony S wrote:

Ha! Terry Copp was my history Prof! Great, engaging speaker and writer.

Tony S.

Was that at Loyola College, Sir George Williams, post-merger Concordia University in Montréal, Québec or at Sir Wilfred Laurier University in Waterloo, Ontario?

Just interested.

Cheers and good gaming.

Rod Robertson.

[Tony S]

WLU.  Wilfrid Laurier.  Early 80s.

I wasn’t aware he taught in Montreal as well.

[Chris Pringle]

Always fancied but haven’t touched yet:

1. The South American wars of independence: exotic, colourful Napoleonic-style warfare, with some heroic figures. I’m particularly intrigued by Coronel Pringles (no relation).

2. The Russo-Turkish War of 1828-1829. I’ve fought plenty of Crimean War and 1877 Russo-Turkish actions, but not this earlier war. As a teenager I read up on it and drew maps to understand the campaign, but never got round to getting it onto the tabletop. Maybe this decade.

[Author]

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