[Mr. Average]

Honestly, I once thought the same way, but 3mm has really come into its own in the last few years.  As they say, if you haven’t knocked it, don’t try it.  Or something.

https://youtu.be/pW00cueK6XM

Looking forward to seeing photos, Ivan!

[Mr. Average]

Land Speeders. Actually Hiigaran Heavy Fighters from Homeworld, but not bad for the purpose, assuming I’ve got my scaling correct. We’ll have to see. Between these and the Drop Pods, the Ultramarines OOB is just about complete. I’d been hoping to use the “Harrier” fighters from Arbron Imagineering, but they’ve taken them off their Shapeways site, something that is getting to be an annoying habit with them (“That thing you like? You can’t have it anymore.”)  Of course, I didn’t ask. But I just got impatient and these looked the part pretty suitably. I guess it makes sense as they push metal through IWM, but I refuse to order directly from Iron Wind Metals at this point – they ship via UPS with signature confirmation and refuse to do otherwise (with somewhat rude and surly responses) and hell if I haven’t ended up spending days chasing down my packages, so nuts to that. Hopefully these will be good for the purpose.

I thought about bikes, knowing that they’re available in the O8 WW2 German line, but they feel a little kitschy in the milieu so I’m just as happy without them. Maybe one day O8 can be convinced to do a sci fi bike of an acceptable kind but I’m not torn up about it. We seem to be getting there, though!

[Mr. Average]

THIS WEEK, I HAVE BEEN MOSTLY WORKIN’ ON… 3MM SCALE SPACE MARINES!

😉

And a comic book with airplanes and pulp action out the wazoo.

[Mr. Average]

Actually, they’re just about perfectly designed for this application.  Each strip has three different moulds.  On the left, a trooper with his gun up, advancing, will be the “assault” marine.  On the right, the guy with his gun in the ready position is the typical “tactical” marine.  In the middle, the cast is noticeably larger than the others, with a heavy weapon, and to my mind is perfect for a terminator or veteran.

[Mr. Average]

The Marines themselves have finally arrived!  Nice little casts, and very amenable to my purposes.  Plus, I have to thank Marcin for making these ones on scored bases so they can be more easily clipped apart – the Heavy Infantry and Soviets which I’ve been using are all on solid bases and hard to separate without damaging the figures.

By the way, in answer to your question, TB, I’m doing the old school Figure-Five setup.  Always liked that more than the Napoleonic Ranks.  Note, the base here is just for scale.  And also, although it is granular, I’m still having good results with the white pumice, to the extent that I think it’ll be my basing material of choice.  Many thanks to the Editor on that one!

At the moment, the arrival of infantry forces has sent me into a frenzy of work drawing up base labels.  And after a few false starts, I’m finally getting a good system of graphics together to keep the units readable.

It’s all falling into place…

[Mr. Average]

So, you snatched up reply #100 for the thread?  Sneaky, TB.

Just in keeping with the thread and trying to be thorough with my images of scale and such, this is to show the relative size of things as they stand:

Small building from Spartan Games.  I proclaim their resin excellent.  Easy to prime, easy to paint, characterful in the extreme.  Looming behind it is a repurposed CEF “Frame” from DP9, standing in for a Warlord Titan and doing a fine job of it at scale.  Had to make it “shootier” than it would be for Heavy Gear, in order to suit the 40K idiom.

[Mr. Average]

Definitely prefer the little tabletop vignettes.  Your buildings and terrain are the biggest selling point of the system – they show how visually appealing the scale can really be.

Coverwise, I like options 1 and 2.  At some point, we should talk about illustrations, you and me.

[Mr. Average]

I do hasten to add that O8 Badger walkers make really good Dreadnoughts. Paint up like a charm and are just right for the scale. Remarkable amount of character considering that they’re only  1/4″ tall! I’m working on Army Cards for all this as well.

[Mr. Average]

The Not-Marines are Not Here. Yet. But I just got an email yesterday that they’re out of back order and on their way to me now. So, here’s hoping…!

[Mr. Average]

A little bit of progress.  A second squad of Royalists, and the Paerydyn tractor is based.

Even with the side labels, I think they get a good “mass” effect.  The tank, by the way, is sitting on its own tiny plinth of polystyrene to put it flush to the top of the gravel basing materials, without having it pitch crooked on the uneven surface.  A pretty good solution, in my opinion.  The Quar keep rolling along!

[Mr. Average]

A little progress, and some photos to show scale, especially of the buildings I’m using, from the Dystopian Wars range.  As you can see, the detail and rendition on the Spartan buildings is really quite excellent, and with a good cleaning, they’ve been taking primer and base coat very well.  As I mentioned previously, the scale is a little smaller for the buildings, but I don’t think it’s noticeable.  And as TB has mentioned, having the buildings a hair smaller than the miniatures makes the figures stand out in contrast and gives a nice feel to the game.

Left to right: two Not-Land Raiders, Not-Thunderhawk, Not-Rhino with Not-Tactical markings, Not-Predator, and Not-Contemptor Pattern Venerable Dreadnought.

[Mr. Average]

Hmm.  Well, I ordered a small pot of the stuff just the same – one never knows.  Good to experiment with, anyway.

On another point related to this project (as it spirals out of control), I thought I’d mention a very odd experience I’ve just had.

The Predators and Rhinos took primer on Sunday afternoon, and although I gave them a very thorough cleaning beforehand, the primer went on very sticky, and after a full day and a half of drying, they were still tacky, with paint residue rubbing off on everything.  Most disappointing.  So I took my usual course and dropped them in paint stripper to try again.  About fifteen minutes later, though, I realized I’d never actually used the solvent on 3d printing resins before, and although it’s non-toxic and relatively non-caustic (Simple Green), I got cold feet, so I took them out of the cleaner bath, rinsed them and dried them off.

Lo and behold, the primer had cured.  No more tacky surface, no more residue.  Now how do you account for that, I wonder?  My working hypothesis at the moment is that the last coat of primer must have gone on with too much propellant or solvent in the mix, and a few minutes in the Simple Green was enough to draw off the solvent without destroying the binder, thus causing the paint to cure when it hadn’t done so before.  I have no idea if that’s what really happened, but the figures seem to be fine now, so I’m calling it a win and moving on.

[Mr. Average]

Interesting – I’d never considered this stuff before.  Worth a try, for sure!  Thanks for the tip!

By the way: Reaver or Warlord Titan (probably Warlord):

Just ordered a pack.

[Mr. Average]

A possible Thunderhawk Gunship (Enceladus Pattern).

And some primed examples of the other National Cheese Emporium vehicles.  Left to right: Not-Predator, Not-Rhino, Not-Whirlwind, Not-Vindicator.  They’re all very good pieces.  Very small for cleaning, though, and I have to wait until the primer sets completely before I’ll be able to tell if it actually “took.”

[Mr. Average]

Jav, you’re reading my mind, here! Really cool pieces, and you can bet my Ultramarines will be descending to battle in them very soon!

[Mr. Average]

Well, of course.  Why else would they import pigeons to the colony?

[Mr. Average]

I agree.  I also got one of the “Towns and Settlements” packs, whatever it’s called, and although pricy at $50, it has pretty much all the building you’re ever likely to need at this scale.

If I ever got a second one, I could cover the majority of the table with buildings, parks, ruins, etc.  As it stands, thin plastic card for sidewalks and then blocks of buildings will make some famous fighting space.  The style of the Dystopian Wars stuff is pretty perfectly amenable to the 40K Techno-Gothic setup.

I think I’m going to get a single 28mm Marine and paint him grey, as a statue in a park.

[Mr. Average]

So the Dystopian Wars terrain looks to me like a great match for 3mm scale.  Probably it’s intended to be closer to 2mm scale, but I don’t really mind the difference.  This is a Brittannia Bunker next to my Land Raider prototype.  I think that in scale and style they’re an excellent match.

[Mr. Average]

Yeah, I’ve done a few tests (none worth photographing) and really I think that a mix of textured paint and some flock and talus is the best bet.  Trying to level out a bazillion infantry bases with putty is liable to be an exercise in frustration and tedium.  And as I’ve already seen with my Quar, just basing in black and then adding various gravels and grit materials makes the base look like shadow and not be noticeable.  So as much as it rankles my perfectionist side I think that’s the best bet.

I’m intrigued by the sandpaper idea, though – it holds a certain fascination I admit, since it had literally never occurred to me.  In fact, there is self-adhesive sandpaper for sanding blocks and belt sanders, and that might be useful – stick it right down.  I might use that as a base for the tank bases if it can be made to work, as it would provide a textured but relatively level surface. Again, experimentation will reveal the route.  Good suggestions everyone!  Thanks for all the input!

[Mr. Average]

Personally, I’m so nervous that I might be railroading my opponent in some way that it kills me to think I might do so.  I often give opponents advice on how to beat me as the game goes on, even. “You know, you could move your tanks there, and have me in a crossfire. Or if you pull your infantry forward, then…”  But even that can go too far.  In a recent game I recall reacting with frustration to what I thought at the time was an overly conservative and “rules-lawyery” move by my opponent, following an edge-of-the-earth tactic. But he then responded to my frustration by running right onto my guns, so to speak, and I felt terribly guilty for days afterwards, feeling like I might have bullied him into handing me a win I didn’t by rights deserve.

The “there’s one right way to do this” mentality is really irritating to me. Almost as much as rules-lawyering. It comes out the same for me – being more interested in a win than in a good experience.  We have an undiplomatic name for it at our club, which I will not rep. eat, but it ties back to a member who was particularly known for this behavior: teaching someone just enough of the rules that they could then be clobbered with them. “Oh, didn’t you know that I have an ‘I Automatically Succeed and You Automatically Fail’ card in my hand?” Sigh.

The thread referred to in the OP has a bit of this mentality in it, I think – driving a bit too hard to the victory over the aesthetics of the experience. Winning is good, sure, but not at the expense of all else. I mean, it’s a game, not real war. It should be a mutual experience and not a throat-grabbing struggle.

[Mr. Average]

They take the paint very well. Much better in fact than I’d imagined they would. I’ve had issues in the past with resins being slightly slick or oily and rejecting primers.  Although I still advise through cleaning before priming, and the tiny details can result in a little bit of wearing off or chipping due to handling, once fully painted with acrylic and then matte lacquered, they’re as good as any figure I’ve worked with so far. Consider that they’re essentially unique items, too, available more or less exclusively in this form, and it’s a pretty attractive little system.

I already have my mind on yellow and red-brown basing. I’m not totally sure if the plaster is going to work though – it might be a tad fiddly at this scale (since I’m basing individually and by squad, for use with NetEPIC rules). Also my plan at the moment is to use PVC plastic bases, which precludes plaster since it won’t bond to a non-porous surface.  I might have some 1.5mm ply laser-cut, though it’d mean a month waiting for the laser shop to get them done.

Most likely I’ll go for textured paint as a basic layer on plastic, painted over in yellow-ochre and red-Browns, and then with a little additional extra-fine talus and some yellow turf here and there to build up some texture. Kneading up tons of plastic putty feels very tedious to me and I doubt I’ll have the patience for that, and modeling a huge batch of plaster bases on wood seems unnecessarily time-consuming as well.

The big imponderable is the infantry. Getting those bases to sit properly without looking like strips of stuff glued to a board – always a challenge. I’ve come close with the plaster basing, but seating and blending down the little bases is time-consuming and labor-intensive. But that might just be the way of things.

[Mr. Average]

Wellp.  They paint up quite well, that’s for sure!  Here’s the first Ultramarine Not-Land Raider:

As always, I’m designing base labels for these – not sure yet how they should look or what information is worth having on them.  Also I have to consider basing materials, too – color and texture, etc.  I’ll do some experimenting.

[Mr. Average]

Not-Land Raiders: Primed and ready to paint!

As you can see, not totally devoid of layer-lines or other such 3D printing artifacts, but in no way does that diminish the level of detail or the workability of the models.  A good cleaning in warm, soapy water followed by a brisk brushdown with a pipe cleaner and a good solid but very sparing coat of white quick-dry primer has brought out the details something wonderful.  I’m extremely pleased!  Quality: high, Detail: high, Workability: moderate-to-high.  Naturally, 3D prints can’t compete on cost – these are significantly more expensive than cast metal items would be.  But I doubt we’ll see them in metal any time soon, anyhow, so this is kind of an all-or-nothing proposition, anyway, on that score.  Still and all, very nice little models and we are definitely on our way!

Courage and Honor!

[Mr. Average]

The Land Raiders just went into the paint box.  So far so good!  I want to give a word of what I consider good advice: the small details on these models have a significant film of support material on top of them – if you’re unfamiliar with 3D printing, support material is a waxy, semi-soluble material used to protect fine details during printing, to keep them from falling off as successive layers are laid down by the printer.  Unfortunately, it’s very slick stuff and sheds paint, a lot like mould release on resin and metal figures.  Hard to see, but it’s there.  The solution is simple: pipe cleaners.  A few seconds’ brisk scrub with a loop of pipe cleaner wire cleaned them up beautifully and brought all that nice detail into high relief.  Lovely!

When the primer hardens in a few hours I’ll post some progress.

[Mr. Average]

Hooray!  The Post Office finally got itself sorted and delivered my Imperial armored vehicles!  Want to see?  Yeah, you do:

Because the material is transparent and right out of the box the detail isn’t resolving well in the photo, but let me advise you that it’s very, very good.  Far better than the 3D model pictures might lead you to believe.  Left to right, we have a wayward Imperial Guardsman separated from his Regiment (III. Saturnine Hoplites),  then a Not-Land Raider, a Not-Rhino, a Not-Whirlwind, a Not-Vindicator, a Not-Predator, an O8 U.S. M60A3 Main Battle Tank caught in a time warp (for scale), and a nickel (U.S. 5-cent coin), which is about 13/16″ or 21mm across.  The grid is 1/2″ (Imperial) square, that’s about 13mm.

They really look great.  I couldn’t be more pleased.  Next step, of course, is priming, which will bring out the detail I think, but I already have to recommend the Frosted Ultra Detail – the resolution is very sharp and the plastic feels quite dense enough to take paint quite well.  They were, naturally, a tad pricier, but as a pioneer in the 3mm NetEPIC world I hope will develop out of this, I felt it only fair to take the long road on this, for the benefit of those who follow.  These are going to be Ultramarines, and some may be the start of an opposing force of Word Bearers, as I’ve all but convinced a doubtful opponent to give the system and the scale a throw by promising to stage for him his favorite battle of the Horus Heresy storyline, the Battle of Calth.  I’ve already identified (above) a number of suitably Imperial-Guardy O8 vehicles to serve as proxies of one sort or another for primitive Guard vehicles from that time period (Panzer IV’s, StuG’s, , and with these in hand I think we’ll have quite a bit of a show this summer!

Cheers and tons of thanks to javelin98 – you rock!  Here’s hoping you expand the horizons and move on with the Not-Eldar, and perhaps the Not-Imperial Guard!  The figures are well worth it!

[Mr. Average]

Catfish!

[Mr. Average]

If only Terminators weren’t $50 a pack.  However, there are some Battletech mechs that might suit the purpose,  To wit:

Daishi

Blood Asp

Malice

Pillager

Jupiter

Salamander

All would need some modification to be useful as Titans but they have a generally good shape to them for the purpose.  I recognize that the per-part cost of these is probably the same as Terminators, but at least you can buy them one-off.

[Mr. Average]

I actually wouldn’t mind over-sized titans.  If, as seems likely, my initial games will be set in the Horus Heresy, when it’s Imperial-vs-Imperial, then the scale issue isn’t such a big deal.  The idea of the titans being, well… titanic… not such a bad thing!

I’m about to order up some of the Dystopian Wars scenery, as well.  And I think some of the smaller tank units (the ones not permanently stuck down to tokens) might make decent Baneblade/Shadowsword/Shadowblade/Banesword/Banebane/Shadowshadow tanks, or at least reasonable material for conversion.  As for my current order – Well, I’ve filed a query with the post office.  It seems to have left one of their facilities for parts unknown at 10PM on Friday, and then disappeared.  Which is just great.  We’ll see.

[Mr. Average]

If Firestorm Armada is anything to go by, they’re near-as-makes-no-difference to 1:600 Scale, even though they’re supposedly half that on paper.  By the way, in re: Imperial Titans, the Critical Mass walkers seem unusually promising, albeit somewhat larger than I might have thought proper for the scale.

http://criticalmassgames.com/default.asp?category=mecha

The variety of oddly Titan-Legions-esque weaponry is particularly interesting.  But they’d clearly outscale any available Eldar titan proxies, I think.

[Mr. Average]

An excellent point!  And as a matter of fact, it seems that the Dystopian Wars scenery will be just about right!  The line between Steampunk and Techno-Gothic is pretty thin, and as they’re evidently rolling out a reorganized set of terrain and unit packs, that means the older ones may be available for a discount!  What can’t be done with resin bits can be meat for some PVC card and plastic glue.  I’m searching now…

[Mr. Average]

Oh, dear Lord, yes. Have you seen the Microworld Not-Ogres, too? Double duty as a Squat Land-Train, if ever there were such a thing possible! It’s a Golden Age, truly!

[Mr. Average]

Oy vey, the wait is KILLING me. The postal service tracking number tells me my Ultramarines have been sitting in a sorting facility for four days. Driving me NUTS! Well, anyway, I won’t get the marine infantry until PicoArmor restocks anyway, so I guess I’ll just be patient as best I can and work on my Quar in the meantime.

I have been thinking about scenarios and settings, and working the Imperial Guard into it, as well. As previously mentioned a lot of conventional vehicles from modern and WW2 ranges work well with just a different coat of paint. Still trying to find a really good, shooty Titan proxy, though I guess I’ll probably end up doing some modding no matter what. One or two of the Clan battle mechs from Ironwind Metals look promising. I’m really leaning more and more towards the Eldar, too, but I want to get the Marines in hand before ordering another round of printed figures, to assess the print material.

I hasten to add, by the way, that a full-size (read: 6mm scale) Thunderhawk Gunship is looking very interesting. I’d be interested to see how it might scale out against 3mm vehicles as-is, or if a dedicated 3mm scale version would be desirable, as javelin98 has offered above.

[Mr. Average]

I do like the design of the Paerydyn, personally, but I think it’s generally just a tad too small. The pedrail is distinctive, though – I tried to make it look worn and rusty from a lot of field use.  And I guess generally the size and shape is supposed to point up that RCO tractors are inferior in design to Crusader Baeliogs.

The 203mm Howitzer was a real stroke of luck, though, huh? The model is from GHQ.  RCO field guns have always been the weak spot in the Royalist minis lines – they look like a tube on a stick with a single tread, smaller than a machine gun, even, and have never felt truly worthy of the vaunted Royal Croftyran Ordinance.  Giving them a passel of heavy howitzers kicks the Royalist forces up a bit. And of course I’m already sympathetic to the Royalists anyway.

Actually, the challenge is not to allow my bias to let me over-weight the thing in the Royalists’ favor. They get a lot, actually: field guns, Trench Daefyls, tanks, aircraft, snipers (in this kit) and heavy machine guns.  And their standard long rifle radically out-ranges the Crusaders’ weapons. But then, the Crusaders get better and more effective tanks, cavalry and a lot of heavy shotguns, which I’ll probably repurpose as HMGs anyway at company scale. I may give them access to support cards for siege mortar barrages and other over-the-horizon gunnery to represent their heavy support behind the lines.

[Mr. Average]

That’s practically perfect, actually! And as you’ve already said, the Sarissa is a superb Spirit Warrior.  I’m hoping that eventually Marcin releases some of the NVL figures at 3mm scale – the Huszari in partocular would be very useful as Aspect Warriors.

[Mr. Average]

More progress!  A Royalist “Paerydyn” Armored Gun Tractor, and an R.C.O. 40-Chraig Field Howitzer on a tracked carriage.  The Tractor carries the blue and white flash of the Royal Croftyran Expeditionary Force on its gearbox.

[Mr. Average]

[Mr. Average]

I’m really happy with them.  The Quar deserve to be made at 6mm scale.  And these sculpts are particularly characterful and dynamic – the whole modelling process from paint to basing is totally enjoyable!

[Mr. Average]

I went with side labels over back so that the bases would fit into the Kallistra trenches I plan to use, which are about 22mm wide.  These guys’ bases (in imperial units) are 3/4″ long by 1″ wide.  I cut them myself out of 1mm black PVC plastic and rounded the corners with a clip shear (being a builder gives you access to all kinds of tools that are useful for gaming!) In addition to the practical concern, I thought it might make an interesting visual change of pace.

Also, the front-right rhyfler in Fireteam II is carrying the Cryfen LMG: note the all-metal weapon with the canvas belt magazine.

Also, a lesson I’ve learned from this set but for some reason didn’t learn earlier: paint the bases of the individual infantry black prior to basing them.  Even if the basing material doesn’t totally cover the bases they’re on, the black will read as negative space to the eye and disappear into the implied shadows. All this time I’ve been driving myself nuts trying to perfectly cover every square micron with basing material, but really just flat black blends down into nothing.

I’m really looking forward to seeing the entire Catrawd in marching order.  I bought some GHQ Soviet 203mm Howitzers to serve as Field Guns and they scale out very nicely. against the Tractors.

[Mr. Average]

One might have thought that my generally fickle attitude towards game projects and my recent ramblings on 40K at 3mm scale might mean that I’ve laid aside my Quar project.  Not true!  The first squad of the Royal Croftyran Expeditionary Force just came off the painting line!

Here it is at table-distance:

And some details.  Note the gold rank bands on the squad’s Yawdryl (Sergeant), and the squad automatic weapon, a Cryfen LMG:

[Mr. Average]

Merchant of Venus is already a boardgame.

I recommend something simple but with a distinctive sound.  Cosmic Strike is awfully close to Cosmic Patrol, a game by Catalyst.  “Parsec” is a good one, even though it just means a unit of distance.  Might be taken already.  “Singularity” is a good one.

[Author]

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