[Les Hammond]

Hardboard. Must have been non-warp in those days coz I never had a problem with it

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[Les Hammond]

Angel Barracks wrote:

…I do wonder about eyesight. Assuming the same number of people now with bad eyes was the same back then, and given that glasses were not that common back then..

Was a good percentage of the population just bad at shooting due to poor vision. Something less of a problem today?

If I were born 100 years ago my eyesight problems would have made me a crap awful shot.

This is the first time anyone’s ever mentioned eyesight as a factor in shooting. I wonder why it’s never been included in the RPG hit adjustment charts over the last 40 or so decades? :/

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[Les Hammond]

If the cat’s away, the mouse needs to keep busy in my experience 😉

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[Les Hammond]

Thanks for the input, people!

Katie L wrote:

Deal it damage tokens for the hits… face down. Some of them are “close call”, some are “weapon kill”, some are “crew kill” that reduce performance. They only get looked at next time the gun wants to activate (which might be to scarper, shoot at you or whatever).

The uncertainty is a good especially for solo play but then…I will have seen the ‘other guys’ dice rolls anyway 🙂

Whirlwind wrote:

How are you deciding that the AT gun is “playing dead”? Is this a command tactic or a morale outcome

More because of continuous suppression. I suppose if you assume there are always ‘secondaries’ when targets are finally destroyed then attackers can stop pummelling the area and move on.

MartinR wrote:

In an open game where the players can see everything, it largely comes down to the mechanics of your spotting and speculative fire rules. The tactic mentioned would work in WRG as it had fixed spotting distances so units could literally drop out of sight by ceasing fire (unless within the minimum spotting distance), but not in CD where once units are Spotted they stay spotted unless they move back out of sight. If your rules allow area fire on terrain features the gun has nowhere to hide in any case.

Speculative fire is allowed and am using fixed spotting distances at the moment, which I have just changed to variable & somewhat random but I think I will have it so that ‘once revealed, stays revealed, unless it backs into full cover’

The ATGs are sighted, so they aren’t going to have a nice time if they try to pull out. The tanks are going to … fire until they see ammo exploding, bits of gun flying, or actually see the crews as dead.

Once something such as a tank or an SPG is firing direct onto a target that has been spotted, even if in a woods, you are not going to easily lose sight of it through binoculars or gun sights.

I think I’ll always allow attackers to see when the target is destroyed (secondaries, etc) and for the target to stay located even if not firing and beyond normal ‘heavy weapon in full cover’ spotting distance, so long as it is still on the tree line.

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[Les Hammond]

Mike wrote:

Did not think the guys playing the Romans were going to win..

SPOILER ALERT!!!

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[Les Hammond]

I’ve downloaded images of French adverts from the WW2 period, shrunk them to size and one day I’ll stick them to the solid gable ends of houses for billboards.

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[Les Hammond]

John D Salt wrote:

WO 291/90, “Firing on the move from tanks”, says:

“With existing British tanks the effectiveness (hits per minute) of shooting on the move is never greater than 1/2 that of stationary fire under similar conditions and is often 1/20 or less. The Westinghouse gyro stabilizer produces some improvement”.

For MG fire, “…the number of machine gun bullets per minute that will come dangerously close to an anti-tank gun crew from a single tank firing on the move is very small.” The best MG results, using the shoulder-controlled mounting in the Crusader and an expert crew, showed a reduction of one-half in hitting rate. “For average gunners factors of 1/4 to 1/20 or worse would be expected.”

For the main armament, it was found that “…a comparatively high percentage of hits can be obtained with a light gun in a free elevation mounting but that the rate of fire is greatly reduced by movement.”

This reflects the British pre-war obsession with firing on the move, when gunners often trained in it

I wonder if it is possible that this firing on the move thing that the Brits were supposedly so fond of at the start of the war (at least at tank gunnery training camps) was quietly ignored in the heat of battle, or if the influx of barely trained tank crew once things kicked off properly meant that this tactic was just not feasible?

I am wondering whether to give British tanks a better chance of firing on the move at all, when compared to other nations.

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[Les Hammond]

MartinR wrote:

As above, it didn’t work very well. If it is something you really want to model, I’d give it a hefty penalty. Most tank crews figured out pretty quickly that firing on the move was waste of time and ammo (apart from MGs of course).

Hmm, if tank crews didn’t use it I don’t think I’ll try to simulate it!!

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[Les Hammond]

Ah sounds like it didn’t work too well in combat. Explains why I never heard of it.

http://www.ww2f.com/topic/32722-main-gun-stabilizer-revealed/

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[Les Hammond]

I just have this urge to look down those tube plants

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[Les Hammond]

Some excellent facts for me to work with, thank you

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[Les Hammond]

No rebasing, very sensible, thanks all.

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[Les Hammond]

This is getting perilously close to the FoW ‘Bail Out’ silliness

We can’t have that!
Just wondering if suppression could have any real meaning in relation to AFVs

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[Les Hammond]

So in a rules context, usually suppressing tanks has no discernible effect apart from “cannot use externally mounted weapons” so maybe something similar for AFVs that already have morale issues, except the crew has deemed to have chambered underneath or something.

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[Les Hammond]

One 6mm FB group and this forum is enough for me.

(If you don’t like a lot of what FB does, install FB Purity. Works on Chrome and any half decent browser and hide most of the rubbish)

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[Les Hammond]

Does the real world have complex initiative and command activation systems? You could argue that it does but until someone invents an elegant way of representing it I’ll stick to units activating randomly in a kind of IGOUGO but with very small stages.

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[Les Hammond]

My phone takes better video than it does stills so I took a few clips in my limited time at the show.

Next year I am determined not to have any holiday to pay for so I can spend all day at the show instead of working the night before and arriving at Midday. There was so much I wanted to ask about but didn’t have the energy 🙁

I did have a go on Per Broden’s Saga for 6mm Units which was a lot of fun if a bit hazy by that stage 🙂

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[Les Hammond]

Strip lighting is horrible: go the whole hog and get decent LED lighting. With the right camera you may not need a tripod to photograph your games!

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[Les Hammond]

In most units I use prone teams for the LMGs and the marching ones that come with figure packs for AT rifles, especially for MG-heavy units eg m/c troops as you can buy the strips individually from H&R (MG34 teams for Germans & PIAT teams for the Brits) and they all fit on same base I use for squads. No problemo.

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[Les Hammond]

Looking forward to more previews!

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[Les Hammond]

I prefer games to use the same certain mechanisms right across the rules, so no greatly varying method of determining hit, destruction etc,  from AP to HE to MG.

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[Les Hammond]

The level of detail you are painting your 6mm Sci Fi will be fine in my opinion. Bear in mind that it might not be so easy to do repaints if they are based up!

The Leven miniatures are quite reasonable for resin moulds but if you are happy with wooden blocks with roofs planed/routed off at 45 degres and painted up that is perfectly acceptable too, it’s your game! Many gamers prefer to buy stuff in rather than make their own, some like to super detail their miniatures & terrain which is fine too if that is the effect you want in your games.

Personally, I reckon if it looks good from game viewing distance of 3 feet it’ll look perfectly alright.

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[Les Hammond]

I love the taste of white spirit in the morning…

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[Les Hammond]

Rod Robertson wrote:

How are the 6mm French coming along?

The Humbrol enamel wash finally turned up so I can start spoiling my paint job with that 😉

I probably still have a squadron of Chars tanks to repaint

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[Les Hammond]

It’s working now!

😉

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[Les Hammond]

Thanks, Time & Martin, another information void filled. 🙂

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[Les Hammond]

Patrice wrote:

…but common feeling is that infantry units did send someone to do the job. Perhaps not as effective as a well trained artillery observer though.

I might reflect that in my rules, then 😉

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[Les Hammond]

Patrice, I think you are totally right there

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[Les Hammond]

Not wanting to hijack my own thread but do people know if the same applies to infantry guns?

I am thinking they might have been used more in a direct support role being part of an infantry unit a rather than artillery but even so, would they have had a spotter attached and therefore be capable of ‘proper indirect fire’?

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[Les Hammond]

Do the brown pipecleaners mean they are dug in?

Nice to see some old school back to basics terrain. A lot of games look like they are on model railways these days, not that I’m knocking them!

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[Les Hammond]

Tim,

I agree with what you say about defining light, medium & heavy mortars. Not sure there were any heavy ones in my period but you’re right, it’s probably best to adopt terminology that works across all timeframes.

Ground scale 1″ to 100m so medium mortars are pretty much always on-tablefor me.

The radio issue & use aspect was what I was wondering about and having the mortars just behind a crest or other object but close enough for one team member to peek over the top is something I can imagine for observed fire. I realise now I am doing this already with platoon light mortars. If I am going to allow the use of forward observers at all to control medium mortar fire using field telephones, I might as well allow radio use, subject to the comms issues of the period.

Thanks all for thinking this through with me.

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[Les Hammond]

Crikey, thanks Rod, tons of info there!

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[Les Hammond]

There’s a bloke on Facebook down in Kent doing one up:
https://www.facebook.com/StugIIIAusfDRestoration/timeline

It should be ready for this show in July (its featured in the vehicles section):
http://nelz60.moonfruit.com/military-vehicles/4582109551

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[Les Hammond]

MartinR wrote:

This sort of stuff was usually carried out when the shooting had stopped however. It is less a question of ‘raising morale’ then having enough chaps/tanks to be be to operate tactically using fire and movement. During combat, some ‘tagging along’ might happen

That’s what I suspected, thanks Martin

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[Les Hammond]

The term I am after is described perfectly by the more modern term of ‘overwatch’. I just want something that sounds more ‘of the time’. The filmic order “cover me!” is close but I want it to encompass ambush situations as well, where the defenders are waiting for enemy to move into view or give away their position if already within range.

Might use “covering fire position” or “arc scanning” as a game term.

Comprehensive replies as always, thanks guys.

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[Les Hammond]

OK, What did the Brits call it in WW2?

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[Les Hammond]

So for example say there are two tank troops that are both down to one tank, one being a troop command tank and the other having a ‘normal crew’. With morale ratings of 33/100 (loss of 66% of elements in the unit) & 13/100 (loss of 66% of elements in the unit plus 20% penalty for one being troop CO).

Thanks to some fortuitous rolls they are both ‘carrying on’.

Depending on their orders, if their paths cross I can picture the troop commander of the two saying to the other “right, stick to me”. He would be more confidant having a backup and the other would be happier that someone is around to take charge.

So I am thinking he could gain one replacement (33% +33% =66%) and the grunt crew could gain a replacement who is also a CO (13% +33% +20% =66%) making them the exact equivalent of a troop that has only lost one tank.

I am thinking they should be penalised a bit and shouldn’t end up with scores as if ‘nothing had ever happened’.

Any thoughts on this?

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[Les Hammond]

What railway scale does it equate to?

Loads here, various model railway scales…

http://www.ehattons.com/stocklist/SiteResults.aspx?searchfield=ice%20cream

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[Les Hammond]

A bit off-topic but the early war French tanks that had one-man turrets have surely got to be penalised in the rules in various ways (ROF, spotting, etc)

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[Les Hammond]

John D Salt wrote:

…another way to put it is that there is no such thing as suppressive fire, in the sense that you do not use your weapons any differently from the way you would when trying to kill someone. It’s just that the difference in shooting accuracy between that required to score a hit and that required to come close enough (a few metres) to worry the target is enormous, and I think often underestimated by wargamers.

….

You also need some mechanism to prevent people from brassing up tree-lines half the morning without resupply and still having enough left to shoot at real enemy when they appear. Most wargamers find ammunition resupply rules too dull to bother with…

Thanks John, plenty for me to think about. I’ll be sure to plough through it, can’t have too much information!

I would definitely have SF availability determined by the scenario to avoid the abuse of it.

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