[Thorsten Frank]

Out of competition comment on the movies (it´s over anyway and congrats to the winner) and only in the same era because both portray “hot” conflicts:
One of the most haunting movies I´ve seen (because of it´s realistic portrait of the situation) is a British TV movie called Contact by Alan Clarke from 1985.
It´s nearly 30 years since I´ve last seen it and I can still remember a lot of details.

And Afghan Breakdown – one of the few movies which showed the conflict and it´s equipment in a close time frame. TBH, first seen it on VHS and didn´t expect much because of the main actor – I was completely wrong.

"In strange grammar this one writes" - Master Yoda

[Thorsten Frank]

Darkest Star Games wrote:

My wife claims she has a green thumb and likes to purchase strange and exotic plants. And then I guess she grows bored or something and they start to die so I take over until she notices I am doing it and she jumps back in! We tried to have a garden for veggies but there are too many critters around here to make it worthwhile between the bugs, varmints, and outright thieving mammals and birds. And lets not mention the unpredictable North Texas weather (we had 1.5x our yearly rain total for the year in the first 4 months, and barely any drops since! Temps are still in high 90s despite it supposedly being fall)

That sounds quite similarly the thing we´ve ecperienced the last three years here. With temperatures up to 42°C (107°F). Small tip from the permaculture bunch: go native and try ollas. I made great experiences with them.

Darkest Star Games wrote:

We might hit it off! We have no idea what we may be getting into, but I do like learning. I did discover that those beasties can get VERY expensive for very odd reasons, and am not quite sure you can actually make a profit from them on a continual basis. Guess we will find out! At least their fiber is useful and quite luxurious!

I hope I can convince my sister to scrap those plans (and I don´t think I will have success with this wish) because of the costs and I know who ends up with the harder part of the work. Having experience with sheeps (that was the hobby of my parents) I know very well how this may be end up (and believe me the sheeps NEVER made any profit in all those years. Quite the contrary)

"In strange grammar this one writes" - Master Yoda

[Thorsten Frank]

Mike wrote:

Plus Marvel Comics have teamed up with GW to make GW comics. They must have a pretty big fan base to get that done.

Got to think back when I first REALLY noticed GW – as I found the White Dwarf (German edition) in a local super market. Must be in the early/mid nineties. In fact it was the only hobby periodical to be found in local stores. That alone has given GW a headstart here back then.

Something similar happened with Battletech around 1989/1990. A large publishing house brought the Gray Death trilogy on the market and they became an instant hit – in fact the publishing house earned more with the BT novels as with the rest of their complete program for over a decade. And I think Revell´s Robotech Defender kits, which looked similar for non initiated, from the mid eighties helped a lot in this case.

"In strange grammar this one writes" - Master Yoda

[Thorsten Frank]

Darkest Star Games wrote:

…trying to avoid gardening, and we will soon probably begin to ranch Alpaca. Hoping to get back into motorcycles when the kids are out of high school and we move to someplace less populated, but just for tooling around and the occasional ride and not the serious racing of my youth. .

Woah, how did you finance that all??? And how did you squeeze all the time out of one week??? Since doing a bit of racing myself I know very well how much money and time this eats alone. And even without reguarly leaving a trail of debris on the track reguarly…..
“Try to avoid gardening” – that sounds like a former self of me too. But since I started to go into edible stuff I´m eager for every new year.
And regarding the Alpaca – I should introduce you to my sister. She talks (and annoys me) with that for years now….

"In strange grammar this one writes" - Master Yoda

[Thorsten Frank]

I want to bring up another point here and that is regional diversity. “Classic” wargaming is largely an Anglo-Saxon affair with it´s primary market in the UK and secondary in the US and in the rest of the world mostly unknown (with a few exceptions).
I took a closer look at the local scene this year. There was one a convention here which was very small (15 tables and a handful salesman). It was the only one in a radius of 200km. Of the thirteen games 5 were 40k, 2 GW LOTR, 2 AoS, 1 X-Wing and the remaining three 2 Bolt Action and one medieval game I didn´t know yet. And additional two Scythe games.
Same for the only regular gaming club I´ve found so far in a radius of 150km in a different location. The majority of the games played there are 40k, LOTR and a few BA. The players drive a lot of kilometres to play there even from cities I guessed had own clubs (and as I found out they didn´t). The only diverging from this standard are some other games like Warmachine and the like – games that try to copy GW´s successes.
I sold (or better gave as a gift) my remaining WH40k stuff to a a guy who mentioned that he plays it a few weeks ago and showed him my 6mm sci fi armies, my 28mm sci-fi and the new 15mm sword and sorcery stuff  and he was completely surprised of that such things even existed and the prices compared to the GW (+clones) stuff. He wasn´t even aware of the WH epic scale.
What shocks me most is that DBA is today virtually unknown – one of the games that brought me into the hobby. Napoleonics are virtually unknown and ACW non existent. With the possible exception of a few collectors.
The last time I was at a dedicated (RPG) hobby store most of the minis sold there were again GW products, followed by RPG minis and a notable collection of old RP BT mechs.
I´ve got to add that the situation was a bit better the times when we had still a presence of US Armed Forces here.

So, on a global scale I would say that WH40k dominates the market by far, followed by other GW games and then several Star Wars games.

But personally, I´m with Tony and John here. I don´t give much on others in this case.

"In strange grammar this one writes" - Master Yoda

[Thorsten Frank]

Mike wrote:

You played the Firefly Boardgame?

I´m hovering over it since I´ve seen them (I know fof two. One where you fly ships and one on the ground and both look VERY interesting with all the expansions) but sadly I´ve got no one to play with.

Mike Headden wrote:

The rest of you seem to have far more interesting lives!

Hah! I always think the same if I read the things other people do and have. In my case all that happened in a span of 48 years by now.  And over this space of time… And for people on the outside (including the remaining rest of the family) my current life seems pretty boring.

Missed something above btw. I´m although occassionally engaged in genealogy and my own DNA results. That turned out to be more work than originally thought.

"In strange grammar this one writes" - Master Yoda

[Thorsten Frank]

Ok, to bring this old thread up again here are mine:

Science-Fiction. Mainly books but some movies and series (primarily B5, Firefly and currently the Expanse). And I´ve got a small knack for those old atomic-age movies.
Reading. Well, obvious (see above) but I´ve got a very broad band of interests beyond SF.
Video games. This is an on/off affair. I´ve got times when I play often and then weeks or months when I never start up a game.
Gardening.

Previously: Martial Arts. Done quite a few. Started with kick-boxing, then Pencak Silat, later Wing Chun and Escrima, and finally HEMA.
Motorcycling. That started harmless and ended on the tracks. Sadly both, motorbiking and MA, I´ve got to cancel due to time over the last 15 years and, tbh, couldn´t really afford motorcycling anymore. Well, still both are on my to-do list if times change.
RPGing and Boardgames. I still do both but very seldom (both not in 2019 and 2018 once). But I still do love reading lore.
Small scale farming. Again, due to time constraints I´ve got to end this.

"In strange grammar this one writes" - Master Yoda

[Thorsten Frank]

Uh, that silence does actually feed my concerns.

"In strange grammar this one writes" - Master Yoda

[Thorsten Frank]

Looks fine. May I ask which material you used?

"In strange grammar this one writes" - Master Yoda

[Thorsten Frank]

deephorse wrote:

I am concerned now that you have raised the possibility of the site being sold to someone else.

Me too! And …. that island. I had to learn that the hard way (but gladly not too late – as for somebody else as I learned 10 minutes ago ).

"In strange grammar this one writes" - Master Yoda

[Thorsten Frank]

I´m completely the same opinions that were stated before. But I want to add something. I´m no great friend of the “keep business and hobby apart” and the “keep businesses apart” – a person running a business should at least remotely have some first hand experience on the things he/she´s selling beyond the obvious and beyond the work time. I´ve too often seen uninterested people selling motorcycles to absolute beginners with no experience with at least a handful fatal results. Or selling computers (or parts of them) with rather strange results. I think everyone has esperienced this in one or the other way.
To keep it with the motorcycle example the best business I´ve dealt with over the years were, over the years, every single employee was riding himself and the boss himself rode on the track several times a year.

Just keep up the good work, Mike!

"In strange grammar this one writes" - Master Yoda

[Thorsten Frank]

Guy Farrish wrote:

. So was Todd’s video a fair assessment of longbow v armour? Eminently so against the best breastplates available in the early C15th and as long as we bear in mind the caveats noted: weaker plates, joints, poorer soldiers, cavalry vulnerability (but see Patay) a good indicator of the abilities of the bow on the later medieval battlefield.

For sure – and it didn´t come as a surprise for anyone who had even only remotely researched into this topic. I never believed in this armour-piercing and the development of plate armour is definetively linked to the massed use of first bows and later the first firearms. The same goes for “armour-piercing swords” which is completely nonsense (ok, I personally managed to pierce the front piece of a harnish with a Mordhau strike (strike with the pommel and cross guard) during a demonstration to show that it is NOT possible). That was my primary reason to link Matt´s video – to put things into perspective. There are so many factors to be considered. Not only the used weapons or the training of the involved but also things like weather, logistics, terrain, luck(!) and so on, that are decisive for the outcome of a battle or a campaign.
And as Matt says, it is no black or white affair.
I think it´s always a bit dangerous to look at isolated occassions and then draw conclusion from that. And, on a side note, worse, integrate the patriotism/nationalism card in that. A look at this specific war shows a very different picture if one looks at the complete conflict and not only the three “longbow battles”.
The same goes for, to take another example, the Burgundian Wars which could have taken a complete different outcome under some circumstances.
Or to take another time, the early successes of the Wehrmacht during WWII – in fact, especially the early western front was likely to have a complete different outcome. Even the German high command did expected a years long struggle in France. Even Poland wasn´t a “sure” affair and could have ended in a complete different way.

"In strange grammar this one writes" - Master Yoda

[Thorsten Frank]

Matt (Schola Gladiatoria) made a response video to the one above and it brings up a lot of points that I thought of seeing the original test and what you guys already brought up.

"In strange grammar this one writes" - Master Yoda

[Thorsten Frank]

The logistics theme, again as video game, is nicely covered in Vietnam´65 and Afghanistan´11. In both games you are more occupied with supporting your FBs (plus reconaissance and winning H&Ms) than actual fighting. Same producer as Flight Deck btw.

Hm, looking at Black Ops for a while now…

One of my small projects over the years for now is to bring a Carrier Command/Battle/Command/Armour-Geddon mashup in the table.  It´s sadly an on/off affair.
Another computer to board thing I´m thinking about since playing Burning Sands is to use a similar mechanic for a Skyfox coversion for the board (lone figher defending a planetary colony against an invading force)

"In strange grammar this one writes" - Master Yoda

[Thorsten Frank]

“At dawn the Athenians do the unthinkable. They attack. They gave the Spartans a taste of Athenian shock combat!”

"In strange grammar this one writes" - Master Yoda

[Thorsten Frank]

Interestingly I increasingly build things myself. I belong to the “minimalist” and “you can buy that”-generation but my opinion on that topic changed. This forum (with all those fine things in all your pics) raised my standards and I want now own scenery too.

"In strange grammar this one writes" - Master Yoda

[Thorsten Frank]

Guy Farrish wrote:

A bit like cossacks – a bloody nuisance – but to whom? Add to that an urge by many 19th century/early 20th century authors to make it almost exclusively an England v Scotland thing rather than about Mafia families nicking stuff and kidnapping people and it can get confusing. Talking of which – having been inspired to drag Fraser off the shelf yesterday and follow a few references I see that Robert Borland’s ‘Border Raids and Reivers’ is now free on Kindle.

This! First, it´s the similarity to the cossacks that got my attention and the. obvious, criminal type of actions. In fact I was a bit surprised by the numbers of raided cattle in the MAA title. I didn´t even imagine such dimensions before.
But I didn´t want to spam a WotR thread with Reiver content in the first place. Thank you for all the answers!

"In strange grammar this one writes" - Master Yoda

[Thorsten Frank]

Thank you for the answer, OB. I will take a look at this book.

"In strange grammar this one writes" - Master Yoda

[Thorsten Frank]

May I ask an additional but not directly (wargagmes) related question on this topic? The Border Reivers are relatively new theme for me (because I´m always interested in “raiding” style warfare) and the whole thing has become personal in a way for me lately.
Is there a book out there that covers the forming and early (until the beginning of the 16th century) of the various border “clans”? I currently only own the Osprey title and this one covers the time period too little for me.

"In strange grammar this one writes" - Master Yoda

[Thorsten Frank]

You got my attention as soon as I´ve read “Stewart Cowley”. Great fan of those works, sadly I own only the second-rate Galactic Encounters-series complete. But I work hard to get the (German language) collection complete (a bit hard they were split here into magazine style things and are really hard to find and if expensive as hell).
Second, I love reading fluff! I´m always interested what others create (that´s a relic from my RPG times).
Unrelated side question are you doing fighters in Silent Death size (I think that´s either 6mm or 1/500) too?

"In strange grammar this one writes" - Master Yoda

[Thorsten Frank]

Deleted User wrote:

Those scenes remind me of Mount&Blade. I like what you did, the uneven surface makes them look more realistic.

Thought the same. On both. And a M&B-type game  is one of the things I´m dreaming of to bring on the board for ages now.

I will give those rules a try.

"In strange grammar this one writes" - Master Yoda

[Thorsten Frank]

So, what about US Rocket Commandos in 1966?

http://www.astronautix.com/i/ithacus.html

This is something I was fascinated of since I heard about it a couple of years ago. EDIT: Crazy, very expensive, plan. Especially considering the dimensions. And if something went wrong….

"In strange grammar this one writes" - Master Yoda

[Thorsten Frank]

Mike wrote:

oooh I like them, the dude on the left espesh.

Hm, he resembles slightly my FB profile pic…..
I like them all – guys, you are all out for my money.

"In strange grammar this one writes" - Master Yoda

[Thorsten Frank]

Hm, considering the archer … I will paint mine (my mind has him bought as soon as he has seen the first picture) in rather dark colours – black as my heart is black.
However, real Mongolians (and most other people of the Eurasian steppe belt) prefer rather flashy colours especially on festivities.

http://ipfactly.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/word-image-6.jpeg?31623f

Don´t wonder about the various blue shades that are often seen. Blue is considered kind of a “sacred” and “noble” colour in Momgolian culture – like purple in various European cultures. So I´m with Rhoderic in this point. And also on the point in trying various paint schemes.

PS: Can´t wait to get my hands on this one.

"In strange grammar this one writes" - Master Yoda

[Thorsten Frank]

I´m absolutely amazed by the table, especially the really “German” looking town – even down to the yellow road signs.

"In strange grammar this one writes" - Master Yoda

[Thorsten Frank]

Pavese  or shield carrying Landsknechts (Oops, I think we get close to classic Macedonians here) and “bazooka”-like heavy “handgonnes” for the forlorn hope/Verlorener Haufen (Well, close call – if I interprete some medieval pictures correct some early handguns were actually shoulder fired….).
EDIT: but a Testudo may look funny in this style.

Hm. European Shinobi/Ninja … wait, knights did that job too.

Maybe Comanche cataphracts? Balearic slinger cavalry? African “knights”? (Ooops, again, the Kingdom of Aksum and later Medri Bahri seemed to utilize heavy, cataphract-like, cavalry)

Much more difficult topic than I thought at first.

"In strange grammar this one writes" - Master Yoda

[Thorsten Frank]

Very friendly communtiy (which I dare to say isn´t the norm)!
And this community brings up mostly very interesting and diverse content. And has a very high level of knowledge.
No trolls.
Also a great thing is the search function for manufacturers (Google doesn´t help very much on this – especially for smaller companies)

One word on the anglo-centric point: wargaming in the pure, historical and military, sense is unknown here in Germany*. You can even be happy if you find a sci fi or fantasy player in a radius of 20-50km, GW products have some higher degree of  awareness in the RPG community.
I would even say on the whole continent (and I think there may be a market to open).

* Which has, obviously, historical reasons.

"In strange grammar this one writes" - Master Yoda

[Thorsten Frank]

Same for me – and it´s good to see that people here have the same taste of music.

"In strange grammar this one writes" - Master Yoda

[Thorsten Frank]

I tried to imagine a Hot Shots! game the whole day….. :-O You all can call yourself lucky not to see the visions I had. 😀

Bat*21 – Hm. First, great for sure. The real story behind is maybe even more worth a game. But that´s nothing for one man alone.

And I want to put another movie into the frey: Sky Fighters (Les Cavaliers du Ciel). This one has maybe some really interesting scenario inspiring scenes.

"In strange grammar this one writes" - Master Yoda

[Thorsten Frank]

FNG question: please give me a link.

"In strange grammar this one writes" - Master Yoda

[Thorsten Frank]

Deleted User wrote:

I had an idea to do something like this but with air combat. Starting with topgun and on to other movies in order of release.

Flight of the Intruder might be interesting.

"In strange grammar this one writes" - Master Yoda

[Thorsten Frank]

GREAT! This is the stuff I´d like to see. And I´m with Thomaston here.

"In strange grammar this one writes" - Master Yoda

[Thorsten Frank]

After getting the first time into fantasy miniature wise at all (blame a certain Mr. Stockin for that. I leave my beloved sci fi safe space currently) I´m completely shocked how small the available choices are. And I planned to use  historical ranges in the first place anyway. Much of the stuff is too much directed towards Tolkien style or try too much to copy GW for my purposes.
However, I don´t want to moan here. I found several companies by now that serve my purposes – but I still miss something like the cavalry at the beginning of the second Arnie Conan movie. And the situation in the mini sector is much better than the lore stuff I found so far.

"In strange grammar this one writes" - Master Yoda

[Thorsten Frank]

My first thought on this would be to take a look at the board game guys. Old Avalon Hill or SPI maps.
http://www.ahgeneral.org/
https://www.spigames.net/rules_downloads.htm
Downloaded several maps (sci fi) there.

Next, for sure Wargamevault. I haven´t taken a look there now but I´m pretty sure there will be something you are looking for.
An alternative is download one of the real or historic maps and use it with a normal measure – just convert the hexes into inches (or cm).

This book(let) is great. I´m sure I wouldn´t have been into wargaming anymore if I hadn´t buyed it five or so years ago. It was a real game changer for me and I reguarly modify it or come up with entirely new things through the thought process described there.

"In strange grammar this one writes" - Master Yoda

[Thorsten Frank]

Wow, what a labour of love. I´m impressed. While it´s not my period of gaming it´s part of my private interests.

"In strange grammar this one writes" - Master Yoda

[Thorsten Frank]

Mike wrote:

You primarily after rules or background?

Only background – I´ve found already rules that are like taylored perfectly after my likings!  (on 15.08 😉 )

@Craig Martell – uh, didn´t know about that. Thank you!

@Roderic – will take a deeper look at Xoth.net but something new came to my mind (after seeing a documentary on Berber architecture on TV tonight.

As it seems right now I will do my own thing (while integrating the part of the fluff from the current rules) and do something different. I watched the Prince of Persia movie again a few days ago – and immediately thought that I want to walk away from the noble savage northern barbarians and the scheming devious southerners and the soft civilized city dwellers. I think it´s time to ressurrect a project that was planned as a mod for Mount&Blade Warband but didn´t come into being of my lack of programming skills and my non existing talent for art. And, well, a rabid employer.
While back then it concentrated on  medieval low fantasy (think of  Westeros with a different approach to magic and monsters) I think I could do a more classic antiquity style setting.
Something is coming into being right now…..

Anyway, thanks for all the answers.

"In strange grammar this one writes" - Master Yoda

[Thorsten Frank]

DELETED

"In strange grammar this one writes" - Master Yoda

[Thorsten Frank]

Actually both – fantasy and sci-fi stuff works for me better if I´ve got a fleshed out background.

"In strange grammar this one writes" - Master Yoda

[Thorsten Frank]

kyoteblue wrote:

I drop everything.

Me too….

 

"In strange grammar this one writes" - Master Yoda

[Thorsten Frank]

willz wrote:

I have not played a computer wargame (please feel free to post any information you have on computer wargaming), why do we as a collective group of gamers not use computers all the time to play our games? Again I suspect it is all down to the visual appeal of our armies marching across the table. Willz.

I feel qualified to answer this because I play video games since 1984 (but played the first time on a neoghbour´s Atari VCS back in 1981), computer wargames since 1986 (SSI´s Nam was the first but not the last), board games since 1988 and minature games since 1990. As always, that´s my personal view on the topic:

-community: often overlooked but certainly one of the most fun things. Even LAN parties don´t reach that point of social contact that a group of friends have. Especially that the mentioned LAN parties are (or better were) full of competion to the point of angry people. I can´t speak of what happens on competetive wargames though.
But it´s always nice to play a game with a few beverages and simply have fun.

-modability: you aren´t satisfied or completely disagree with some rules – simply change them (if everyone involved concurs). One of the first things we changed were the infantry rules from Battletech/Citytech. And I still say that. That´s a thing mostly impossible for computer games even if you´ve got some programming skills or connected with so much work that´s it´s hardly worth for.
And while some video games live from their ability to be “easy” modable it´s often still lot´s of work.
And what I´ve learned over the last 35 years: never underestimate the stupidity of game designers. Even companies that supply really “hardcore” wargames/simulations make sometimes errors that amaze me.

-diversity: there are so many aspects to the hobby. You´ve got modelling, painting, building terrain, think about how to make this more effective for you personal style, reading books about your games and and plus having fun and play it. Railway models may come close – but one has to be interested in railways and how they work (but I´ve got to admit that both hobbies intersect and I know two people personally doing both – much to the dismay of their wifes).
And this diversity applies to the themes of the produced video games. You have virtually hundreds of games for WWII in every style from shooters to hardcore simulations of small battles. Modern Warfare, Napoleonics and ACW have a good selection too. Lot´s of Fantasy and Science-Fiction ones – and here the problems begin. There is NO game out there that furthers a play style like Dirtside, Horizon Wars or Tomorrow Wars  for example. Not a single one. Most are influenced by Star Wars or even licensed games. Fantasy? You´ve got lots of games for high fantasy or even some “low” fantasy ones since the Game of Thrones craze. Games based on D&D and the like. If you want to play something in a Conan sword&sorcery style? Currently only a handful games. And them not even really good. Or to come back to historical scenarios, there are quite some good ones out there for medieval, dark age and classical antiquity – but if you ask for some specialized scenarios, like colonial warfare 18th/19th century, medieval Indian or Persian warfare, Mongol storm, Russia 16th/17th century or medieval? The selection is limited or non-existent.
Last year I´ve searched for a game that has something of the Varangian state building in early medieval Russia or the Kievan Rus – nothing.
Early this year I´ve searched for a game depicting the Border Reivers…. Border WHAT?
You´ve got quite a selection for every single theme on the miniature or board wargame market.
Well, my mind does understand it – which company will invest millions into a computer game nobody or only a handful people does buy. But emotionally I´m angered (and I would have liked to use another word).

"In strange grammar this one writes" - Master Yoda

[Author]

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